Nissan IDx 10 concept is the new 510/Bluebird Coupe

General Discussion about the Datsun PL510
HudsonMC
Posts: 461
Joined: 30 Mar 2010 05:56
Location: Corpus Christi, TX

Re: Nissan IDx 10 concept is the new 510/Bluebird Coupe

Post by HudsonMC » 22 Nov 2013 06:14

okayfine wrote:My poor Photohack
idx210.jpg
oh my God, I can't stop laughing. :lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
Techromancer
Supporter
Posts: 95
Joined: 16 Feb 2012 19:48
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Nissan IDx 10 concept is the new 510/Bluebird Coupe

Post by Techromancer » 22 Nov 2013 08:38

okayfine wrote: But, no, you're not likely to find it in the IDx: "Nissan says it envisioned the car to be motivated from a powertrain with a 1.2-to-1.5L gasoline engine mated to a continuously variable transmission (CVT)"
I've seen this a lot on various forums. I think people are forgetting the L16 that came stock in the 510. My car doesn't exactly have awe inspiring acceleration. When the 510 was made, a manual was the most fuel efficient transmission available, now the CVT is. It's more of a literal update to the 510 than people probably want. I have trouble believing that there won't be a spec-v or Nismo version with a decent amount of power and a manual transmission, but then again, who knows what Nissan execs will greenlight.

Much like the FR-S/BRZ, I'm sure that the aftermarket will address any power problems and you can always swap a bigger engine and a manual in there. I hear that's a popular thing to do with 510s :wink:

User avatar
okayfine
Supporter
Posts: 14139
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:02
Location: Newbury Park, CA

Re: Nissan IDx 10 concept is the new 510/Bluebird Coupe

Post by okayfine » 22 Nov 2013 08:45

Techromancer wrote:I think people are forgetting the L16 that came stock in the 510.
Nope. And the L16 wasn't a powerhouse. But it had only 2100 pounds to push. It has been suggested that Nissan is getting their RWD platform from a modified version of the Juke AWD platform. That comes in at ~3000lb.
Techromancer wrote:and you can always swap a bigger engine and a manual in there. I hear that's a popular thing to do with 510s :wink:
Not a lot of engine swapping going on with modern cars. The electronics are becoming too integrated (see also issues with VQ and QR 510 swaps) and regulatory/emissions hurdles too high. You can keep a 510 going for nearly 50 years with careful maintenance or, failing that, an engine swap. You won't be able to keep an IDx going for 50 years no matter what.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

User avatar
Techromancer
Supporter
Posts: 95
Joined: 16 Feb 2012 19:48
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Nissan IDx 10 concept is the new 510/Bluebird Coupe

Post by Techromancer » 22 Nov 2013 10:41

okayfine wrote: Nope. And the L16 wasn't a powerhouse. But it had only 2100 pounds to push. It has been suggested that Nissan is getting their RWD platform from a modified version of the Juke AWD platform. That comes in at ~3000lb.

Not a lot of engine swapping going on with modern cars. The electronics are becoming too integrated (see also issues with VQ and QR 510 swaps) and regulatory/emissions hurdles too high. You can keep a 510 going for nearly 50 years with careful maintenance or, failing that, an engine swap. You won't be able to keep an IDx going for 50 years no matter what.
So you need about 150HP to maintain the power to weight ratio of the original car assuming a 3000lb weight, but I can't imagine the body, interior and AWD delete will have the IDx coming in anywhere near the weight of a Juke.

The Subaru guys are swapping motors all over the place. Even without that, adding a turbo or upgrading an existing one will get the power where it will at least be fun. Where there's a will, there's a way.

User avatar
RonM
Supporter
Posts: 1750
Joined: 16 Aug 2010 20:42
Location: SF, East Bay, 510 area code

Re: Nissan IDx 10 concept is the new 510/Bluebird Coupe

Post by RonM » 22 Nov 2013 11:42

Techromancer wrote:I've seen this a lot on various forums. I think people are forgetting the L16 that came stock in the 510. My car doesn't exactly have awe inspiring acceleration. When the 510 was made, a manual was the most fuel efficient transmission available, now the CVT is. It's more of a literal update to the 510 than people probably want. I have trouble believing that there won't be a spec-v or Nismo version with a decent amount of power and a manual transmission, but then again, who knows what Nissan execs will greenlight.

Much like the FR-S/BRZ, I'm sure that the aftermarket will address any power problems and you can always swap a bigger engine and a manual in there. I hear that's a popular thing to do with 510s :wink:
First off I must say, you have the coolest user name in all the web land IMO Techromancer. When reading about the diminutive power plans proposed for the IDx it's easy to forget the 45 year time gap between these two cars. By todays standards the L16s design looks purely economy driven, but in reality it was the SR20 of it's time. As okfine stated, although the 510 wasn't a muscle, it's power to weight ratios gave it respectable performance. When you consider a comparable 60s American economy car like the Dodge Dart, it weighed in at 3,300 lbs, and had a 170 ci (2.8L) slant 6 engine that was putting out 101 bhp through a 3 speed push button auto trans. The light little 2,100 lbs 510 with 97 bhp through a 4 speed manual would literally run circles around the Dart under any conditions. When the 510 came to North America it set a totally new standard by introducing the "economy" light compact sports sedan. With the 510 Nissan filled a void on multiple levels; great fuel economy, nimble handling, solid reliability, and that's what gave it broad appeal.

Today Nissan is late in returning to the entry level sport compact party they started back in the 60s. If they want to hit the dance floor again they are going to have to dance to the standards of todays market, but with a 1.5L CVT power train the IDx won't even make it to the floor. If Nissan builds it on the Juke chassis though, they might as well skip the party all together, smoke another bowl, and watch some more Gilligan's Island reruns.

The stock 2013 WRZ sit puts out 305 bhp @ 3,208 lbs. BRZ, 200 bhp @ 2,762 lbs. IDx 150 @ 3000 LBS... Turn out the lights, the party's over.
Sometimes people loose touch with subjectivity, because they've got they're heads stuck too far up they're own,,, Reality.

User avatar
Techromancer
Supporter
Posts: 95
Joined: 16 Feb 2012 19:48
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Nissan IDx 10 concept is the new 510/Bluebird Coupe

Post by Techromancer » 22 Nov 2013 12:20

RonM wrote: First off I must say, you have the coolest user name in all the web land IMO Techromancer. When reading about the diminutive power plans proposed for the IDx it's easy to forget the 45 year time gap between these two cars. By todays standards the L16s design looks purely economy driven, but in reality it was the SR20 of it's time. As okfine stated, although the 510 wasn't a muscle, it's power to weight ratios gave it respectable performance. When you consider a comparable 60s American economy car like the Dodge Dart, it weighed in at 3,300 lbs, and had a 170 ci (2.8L) slant 6 engine that was putting out 101 bhp through a 3 speed push button auto trans. The light little 2,100 lbs 510 with 97 bhp through a 4 speed manual would literally run circles around the Dart under any conditions. When the 510 came to North America it set a totally new standard by introducing the "economy" light compact sports sedan. With the 510 Nissan filled a void on multiple levels; great fuel economy, nimble handling, solid reliability, and that's what gave it broad appeal.

Today Nissan is late in returning to the entry level sport compact party they started back in the 60s. If they want to hit the dance floor again they are going to have to dance to the standards of todays market, but with a 1.5L CVT power train the IDx won't even make it to the floor. If Nissan builds it on the Juke chassis though, they might as well skip the party all together, smoke another bowl, and watch some more Gilligan's Island reruns.

The stock 2013 WRZ sit puts out 305 bhp @ 3,208 lbs. BRZ, 200 bhp @ 2,762 lbs. IDx 150 @ 3000 LBS... Turn out the lights, the party's over.
Hehe, thanks. I use technology to bring things to life, so I thought it was appropriate.

These are all good points that I hadn't really considered. I agree that they're coming to the party late, but they're also gunning for the BRZ, not the WRX. I think it's totally reasonable for them to get the weight down to or under 2700 lbs and if they're doing several trim levels, they'll definitely need an option package that nets at least 200HP mated to a manual so they're on par with the BRZ. It's interesting that the BRZ and WRX are the same price. I wonder if WRX sales have been affected or if their target markets are different enough.

Over at JNC, one of the designers at least seems to be getting the hint about the C pillar, so that's a start.

User avatar
RonM
Supporter
Posts: 1750
Joined: 16 Aug 2010 20:42
Location: SF, East Bay, 510 area code

Re: Nissan IDx 10 concept is the new 510/Bluebird Coupe

Post by RonM » 22 Nov 2013 12:26

Thanks for the heads up on the goings on over at JNC. I'll have to post up some of this on their site,
Sometimes people loose touch with subjectivity, because they've got they're heads stuck too far up they're own,,, Reality.

User avatar
Techromancer
Supporter
Posts: 95
Joined: 16 Feb 2012 19:48
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Nissan IDx 10 concept is the new 510/Bluebird Coupe

Post by Techromancer » 22 Nov 2013 12:37

A quick photoshop to show a roof and pillars that match the rest of the car.

Image

User avatar
RonM
Supporter
Posts: 1750
Joined: 16 Aug 2010 20:42
Location: SF, East Bay, 510 area code

Re: Nissan IDx 10 concept is the new 510/Bluebird Coupe

Post by RonM » 22 Nov 2013 13:02

I don't know, still lipstick on s pig IMO. Try taking the notch out of the rear C making a triangle rear quarter like the 510.
Sometimes people loose touch with subjectivity, because they've got they're heads stuck too far up they're own,,, Reality.

User avatar
Techromancer
Supporter
Posts: 95
Joined: 16 Feb 2012 19:48
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Nissan IDx 10 concept is the new 510/Bluebird Coupe

Post by Techromancer » 22 Nov 2013 13:28

Image

User avatar
okayfine
Supporter
Posts: 14139
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:02
Location: Newbury Park, CA

Re: Nissan IDx 10 concept is the new 510/Bluebird Coupe

Post by okayfine » 22 Nov 2013 13:47

Still a Celica, but now at least not a b210. Not bad. Now, let's work on the drivetrain :)
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

HudsonMC
Posts: 461
Joined: 30 Mar 2010 05:56
Location: Corpus Christi, TX

Re: Nissan IDx 10 concept is the new 510/Bluebird Coupe

Post by HudsonMC » 22 Nov 2013 14:01

RonM wrote:Today Nissan is late in returning to the entry level sport compact party they started back in the 60s. If they want to hit the dance floor again they are going to have to dance to the standards of todays market, but with a 1.5L CVT power train the IDx won't even make it to the floor. If Nissan builds it on the Juke chassis though, they might as well skip the party all together, smoke another bowl, and watch some more Gilligan's Island reruns.

The stock 2013 WRZ sit puts out 305 bhp @ 3,208 lbs. BRZ, 200 bhp @ 2,762 lbs. IDx 150 @ 3000 LBS... Turn out the lights, the party's over.
Some of the stuff I've read has pointed to the turbo 1.6 in the Nismo version. That motor makes 200 HP, no? Even though it's a bit heavier than the FR-S, we all know HP/lb is only a small part of the acceleration picture. A turbocharged motor should (theoretically) make more torque and have a flatter torque curve than an equally powerful NA motor. Maaaaybe a 200 HP iDX could keep up with at least the FR-S?

That being said...everybody was complaining about acceleration (lack thereof) in the FR-S.

User avatar
Techromancer
Supporter
Posts: 95
Joined: 16 Feb 2012 19:48
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Nissan IDx 10 concept is the new 510/Bluebird Coupe

Post by Techromancer » 22 Nov 2013 14:34

I saw that it's barely longer than a miata... how about 188 HP from an MR16DDT and 2500 lbs? Same power to weight of a BRZ.

KoHeartsGPA
Posts: 513
Joined: 15 Oct 2006 12:03
Location: Eugene,Oregon

Re: Nissan IDx 10 concept is the new 510/Bluebird Coupe

Post by KoHeartsGPA » 22 Nov 2013 14:55

okayfine wrote:Still a Celica, but now at least not a b210. Not bad. Now, let's work on the drivetrain :)
2.4 L turbo charged with 350z tranny+rear end modified ratio to give it the gitty up that the 350z has :-)
Diego.

iceD
Posts: 685
Joined: 31 Mar 2008 20:07
Location: Richmond, B.C.

Re: Nissan IDx 10 concept is the new 510/Bluebird Coupe

Post by iceD » 24 Nov 2013 12:03

This article suggests the owner will be able to 3D print body mods. How amazing is that.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/t ... 9_31421010

ice D

Post Reply