I'm a race car driver!!!!!

[icehouse]

Finally after all these years of having and tinkering on 510's! Turns out they started auto crossing at a track about 25 min from my house. Even though my Tan 510 (Hey) is still miles away from having the proper setup I decided to go. Turns out it was more fun that I could have even imagined!!! So I went again, which was this last saturday. It was a rainy day, who would have thought but I liked racing in the rain even better. It kinda evens the competition plus lots of guys go home early or don't even race. There was 27 people signed up to race by the time the racing started we were down to 17 dudes. Which meant by the end I had 30 laps in Second highest out of anyone

I would like some input on suspension settings for a close coarse, mainly second gear. What I have now and I don't like it. I did get 24th out of 47 cars the first time and 6th out of 17 this last time. Most of the 17 cars this time were Subi's. it's fun beating an STI in the rain haha Seems like they would have the advantage.

Okay settings. Most were off a car I bought for parts. An unfinished project.


Front

Futofab 1 1/8th inch sway bar
Tokico 5 way adjustable inserts with 185 pound springs,
T3 Camber plates
T3 TC rods

I hate the entire front setup. Sounds like my car is falling apart, yes our track is rough and since the T3 TC rods hit the sway bar I had to add a bump stop, which of coarse I just end up bouncing off it the entire time. I'm thinking about making a sway bar like Byron has that goes under the TC rod and control arm.

Rear

Byron's brackets of coarse! Biggest night and day item and the only one I have no complaints about. It really makes a difference I think when the person engineering/designing it actually installs the product and enjoys the car they are made for.
T3 coilovers with 500 pound springs. They came with 200 pound springs which was torture. I'd rather live with overly stiff than a saggy butt 510. The T3 coilovers also need to be modified. DUMB!

Here is a video of the first day. Of coarse my gopro battery didn't last long so I only got the first few runs on video.

Sound was garbage so I put punk rock over it.

I will upload the rainy day soon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRdYB1pw0F4

[Byron510]

I did my first autocross at 16 years old, and haven't looked back

It is fun, but all I can say aside from having at least tight everything is tires, tires, tires. Many years ago I took a dead stock L16/Automatic (that was so rusted you could look through the car) to an All Nissan Event that was put on by a non Nissan group with mostly new Miatas, Subies and other worthy later model stuff. My good car was being painted that year, I had nothing but a very worn out car and a set of R compound tires. I embarrassed a lot of people that day. My biggest problem was staying in the stock and worn seat! Preservation of forward motion was key because acceleration was not in the picture. So braking was not an option. We were allowed a passenger in those days, so I put a friend (Richard I think) in the rear passenger corner to keep that tire on the ground so that I didn't have to lift through a key sweeper in the course! It worked and I took nearly a second off my best time. When I broke the beam, the timing/scoring guys were at first reluctant to call the time out - it was awesome.

But your going down the right road Jeff. A wet track really helps you dial in a car because tendancies like understeer and unbalanced corner weights become dreadfully more apparent. Rain is sometimes a blessed tuning tool for the chassis set up.
Are you running an LSD? It does change the dynamics quite a bit, but gives you the advantage to steer somewhat with the throttle, even in a low HP car. Honestly I've never had a car that put more that 160 to the wheels on a good day, yet I steer with the throttle a lot! Sway bars and toe settings can be played with according to feel. Camber is specific to tire heat and wear. But one area that I have not mastered is shock valving relative to spring rate. Mr Vorgon has knowledge of this dark art! I know I have more to learn here as its still a bit of a black art to me.

Keep it up, and keep us posted.

Byron

[bertvorgon]

Hey Jeff....I can tell from the tone of your post that you are bitten by the bug.

Competition brings out that realization that what you have...CAN BE BETTER...so that lights up the
technical aspect in most of us on this site, that like to build stuff, that.... WE CAN MAKE IT BETTER....

Then, that leads to the addiction of racing, as that is the yard stick by which you measure your progress, both from bettering your personal times at a given event, and of course, against the competition.

As you are an incredibly technical person, you have already begun identifying the potential handling issues.

Go back now and re-read the suspension thread, where I talk about the balance of the car..everything...as it may mean more now.

You may find the front springs too soft, as the rear, specially when it dries out and the grip goes UP..then...there is the tire issue...how grippy are the tires?! It becomes a chase!

Shock's are the biggest issue, again, re-read the suspension thread. I had my front BILSTEINS custom valved to close to a 50/50 ratio, which I have found to be almost perfect, concurred with by BAZ down under. He had some suggestions if I remeber correctly. I have not read that thread for years now, but do give it a read.

As Byron alludes to, and LSD is what a 510 needs absolutely to be fast, and then an understanding of weight transfer and how to use that in your driving style.

Hey...many, many years ago..for a Solo Championship..I prayed for rain..and was awarded with that. I beat ALL comers in my WIFE"S bone stock 1970 510 automatic, with my rain tires, as I could drive the can off that thing with zip for power, yet I could maximize my driving in the slippery conditions, against all the MOD cars who could not put the power down. Nobody said I could NOT bring another car..!!!!!! Heh, heh. Tactics my friend, tactics.

Also, make sure you have lots of suspension travel..PERIOD. I have about 2.750" up front and more than enough in the back. If the car bottoms the suspension, no amount of cool parts will ever make it work.

[PoorMtnKid]

And now you know why I have put so much damn money into my car haha. Try to get out to a track day if there are any near you, makes an autocross feel stupid! Although the competition of beating your time at autocross is really fun.

[McShagger510]

Hey hey, take it easy on my car, man! After being a passenger in that car, I'd say try raising it up a bit to get some MOAR travel. It looks and feels like it's almost on the bump stops. Sticky 'R' compound tires would work wonders too (so I'm told - HA).
Yer not winning if yer spinning!!

James

[icehouse]

Yeah Byron that's my next mission! My tires consist of 2 that were pulled off dillons car about 6 years ago and a two I got from the tire store just to make it to Canby. So basically cheap tires. I think thats why my car was so predictable while trail braking, since the newer tires are in the back. The others have to much camber wear to run in the rear anymore. I have to run tread wear 200 or higher to stay in the "street tire" class. My friend runs Continental DW but I couldn't find 15" tires. So if you guys know of any let me know.

I do have a Subi LSD in the car. So I'm good there!

Yeah Keith I'm re-reading the suspension thread and have some tricks up my sleeve from all the computer modeling we've been doing Did you guys know that the outer tie rod binds at 14 degrees!! yeah I know that seems like a lot of upward angle but it's less travel than you would think. If you run level LCA's and want the travel you speak it won't be possible. Well it will be close. Little things like this will help me improve my suspension setup.

How rough are the tracks you guys race on? I rode in my buddies WRX who always gets the fastest time and even his cars suspension bottoms out. Our track has some bad spots

I want to do a real track day but I'm scared of being in the same boat! Dude 30 laps timed was so cool!

What! Your car! Bring the Snot Rocket down and we can race for pinks! Yeah it's on the bumps. Only in the front and only because the stupid sway bar hits the TC rods Bad design. I want an under sway bar now.

[bertvorgon]

Here is a snap of my sway bar mount for what it is worth.

Our track is kinda smooth, one bad pavement camber issue at the far end. I have only ever bottomed one side of my cars front shock, at over 100 MPH on one of our club drives on a VERY heavy mountain road.

You just should never bottom out, while maybe at the track, but, that can cause catastrophic loss of traction if it happened on a Canyon Tour..not good.

[PoorMtnKid]

30 laps is good, at our AutoX we typically get 6-9.......

[icehouse]

Thanks for the picture! Yeah I Think I'm going to build one like that.

[bertvorgon]

That is 1 1/8" by the way. I run NO rear bar.

[icehouse]

Trust me Keith I know the suspension on your car

[bertvorgon]

I will take you for a ride one day.

[funwithmonkeys]

I am running the Futofab 1 1/8" bar in front with their T/C bars and the sway bar mounted on top with no issues. Since I put in the 300lb spring I have not hit the bump stops. I will be taking it to the track in the new year so that will be the real test.

[McShagger510]

SNOT ROCKET!