BC 510 club Dyno Day: interest?
- bertvorgon
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- Location: White Rock, B.C. Canada
RE: Would you let these guys into your kitchen?
yes, we have a master sheet somewhere. Ray won the money, he was the closest. Man, did his car sound sweet!
Last edited by bertvorgon on 09 Jul 2006 14:45, edited 1 time in total.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
RE: Would you let these guys into your kitchen?
Norrish has the guess and results sheet. So you know that will be in the next newsletter.
Peter Hedgecock and Ray Staschuck were in a tie for the money until Peter removed his air cleaner box, but I think thats a good 20 bucks to loose as he picked up 7hp by doing that, Yeah I too look forward to the next dyno day....means I'll have to do something to the 300,000km motor for some extra juice.
Peter Hedgecock and Ray Staschuck were in a tie for the money until Peter removed his air cleaner box, but I think thats a good 20 bucks to loose as he picked up 7hp by doing that, Yeah I too look forward to the next dyno day....means I'll have to do something to the 300,000km motor for some extra juice.
Last edited by vgwagon on 10 Jul 2006 14:35, edited 3 times in total.
Denis Gagné
AKA VGwagon
69 510 VG30e swapped
73 240z VG30et swapped
86 300zx na2t VG30et converted
AKA VGwagon
69 510 VG30e swapped
73 240z VG30et swapped
86 300zx na2t VG30et converted
- bertvorgon
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- Location: White Rock, B.C. Canada
Keith, how did you guys get Jamie's car up on the dyno without ripping off the airdam? You know, I make it that at least 7 of the fellow didn't get to run last time, we may have to do this again you know ! Shucks huh? Say, do we have enough time to cruise up the other way to squamish via the fraser canyon? We had the whole morning to kill.....
Jason
- bertvorgon
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We take the air dams off. We have Dzus fasteners on there, and two hose clamps for the brake ducts...whammo..off in a minute. Jamie just touched his header just like Byron. That would be my worry as I absolutely could not distort my stainless pipe there. It is a very tight slip joint, plus my waste gate come in there all fairly precision fit. have to really look at that when my time comes, maybe put my 15's on too, although Jamie had his 15's on.
Yah, we could have done the Duffy route in reverse, and made it there for 1:00. Besides, now that we know how much power you have been sandbagging on, your going to set the pace....
Yah, we could have done the Duffy route in reverse, and made it there for 1:00. Besides, now that we know how much power you have been sandbagging on, your going to set the pace....
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Dyno Sheet
Engine is L20b block 1mm over,L20b rods and crank, L18 pistons, W53 head stock valves w/mild port matched to sss intake, 42mm 240z SUs (currently using roadster 2000 needles but that may be changing soon), M651 cam, sss exhaust manifold, 2.25" exhaust w/glass pack res. and SS Ultra flow muff. Crane HI-6s ignition triggered by Nissan "matchbox" electronic ignition, dash adjustable. Also #20 flywheel and electric fans.
Things learned; I was right, it is running hugely rich (in the 10s) and my feeling that it`s slower than it used to be isn`t just contrast with my winter car the Xr4ti. Need to address getting the mixture back where it should be (12-13).
2nd thing; need to do a rework on my airbox and get the airhorns in there as per my original design and see if it is indeed a turbulence problem causing the power loss. I seriously doubt it`s restriction as the in pipe is 3" and should flow far more than that engine ever needs.
3rd thing; the carbs appear to be just about the right size for the engine as the reach full lift under load just short of max rpm. Seems like maybe Nissan knew what they were doing when they used the same size on the 2000 Roadsters despite popular myth, in some circles, that 42mm carbs are too big for the fours.
Final thing; next time make notes about things I want to try, totally forgot to try adjusting the timing for one of the pulls as I had intended. Doh! next time...
For the hell of it while the engine was warm after getting home tonight I played with the carbs mixture adjustment and found they were way richer than I recall setting them last time. hm....vibration maybe? or maybe I`m just not remembering right. Memory is the first thing to go they say. Got the faragraph reading a bit happier(replaced the sensor a couple weeks ago and had noticed it now read rich alot more) and went for a drive. Feels crisper but hard to say for sure about power, to much traffic around to give it a real try up my usual full throttle hill and check top speed at the top. See maybe tommorrow.
Things learned; I was right, it is running hugely rich (in the 10s) and my feeling that it`s slower than it used to be isn`t just contrast with my winter car the Xr4ti. Need to address getting the mixture back where it should be (12-13).
2nd thing; need to do a rework on my airbox and get the airhorns in there as per my original design and see if it is indeed a turbulence problem causing the power loss. I seriously doubt it`s restriction as the in pipe is 3" and should flow far more than that engine ever needs.
3rd thing; the carbs appear to be just about the right size for the engine as the reach full lift under load just short of max rpm. Seems like maybe Nissan knew what they were doing when they used the same size on the 2000 Roadsters despite popular myth, in some circles, that 42mm carbs are too big for the fours.
Final thing; next time make notes about things I want to try, totally forgot to try adjusting the timing for one of the pulls as I had intended. Doh! next time...
For the hell of it while the engine was warm after getting home tonight I played with the carbs mixture adjustment and found they were way richer than I recall setting them last time. hm....vibration maybe? or maybe I`m just not remembering right. Memory is the first thing to go they say. Got the faragraph reading a bit happier(replaced the sensor a couple weeks ago and had noticed it now read rich alot more) and went for a drive. Feels crisper but hard to say for sure about power, to much traffic around to give it a real try up my usual full throttle hill and check top speed at the top. See maybe tommorrow.
Pacesetter?
Hi Keith, just got home from work, yes I think you'd have to go with your 15" rims and tires. There must be a way to block up the car a little higher? Say, your car is light enough that the big guys like Byron and Malcom could probably lift it over the edge to not scrape.bertvorgon wrote:We take the air dams off. We have Dzus fasteners on there, and two hose clamps for the brake ducts...whammo..off in a minute. Jamie just touched his header just like Byron. That would be my worry as I absolutely could not distort my stainless pipe there. It is a very tight slip joint, plus my waste gate come in there all fairly precision fit. have to really look at that when my time comes, maybe put my 15's on too, although Jamie had his 15's on.
Yah, we could have done the Duffy route in reverse, and made it there for 1:00. Besides, now that we know how much power you have been sandbagging on, your going to set the pace....
Pacesetter my eye, you and Jamie disappeared up ahead so fast I swear I just looked down to take a picture! At least I know what speeds you guys go at now, when the traffic clears up and the road gets twistier you guys are rarely below 70mph!
You know, we get to blackmail el presidente now, he didn't show up for dyno day, would have been interesting to see what his EFI Z20 puts down. We should make him buy lunch next time!
Jason
Nice Sheet!
Nothing to be disappointed here Peter, the numbers look great to me! So how much "improved" is your engine over a stock L20b with 38mm su's then?tmpnet wrote:try this again.....
Jason
- supersportsedan
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Re: Pacesetter?
Hey, that's a Z22e. Booyah!jason wrote:You know, we get to blackmail el presidente now, he didn't show up for dyno day, would have been interesting to see what his EFI Z20 puts down.
No problem, I'll just write it off as a business expense.jason wrote:We should make him buy lunch next time!
- bertvorgon
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RE: Re: Pacesetter?
Peter's runs were most intersting, due to taking that air box plenum off. It really did point out that turbulence/size can really kill a cars performance. Peter's first pull showed that it was really rich, and just did not pull cleanly. With the air box off, the air/fuel leaned almost 2 points, the engine pulled very cleanly to redline, and made 7 MORE HORSEPOWER! That is a lot. I agree Peter, the air cleaner is not the problem. The K&N on my car is not all that much bigger than yours. I know how much work Andy puts into making an air box plenum, for different cars. When he was building the GT cars, we took the first prototype, put a manometer on it, and blasted down a road with him hanging onto it, out the window of my GTS. He wanted to see what PRESSURE might actually be building in there. Very interesting. I think your air box was just way too narrow, when you think about what CFM is trying to go down those carbs at wide open throttle, causing a ton of turbulence. I don't know if anyone has noticed ( I do not have the air box off very much, to see), but, we milled that whole top section off my carb, where the choke plate used to be. This was to make sure I had LOTS of room for the air to get into the carb, under the top of the airbox. Boost is great, but, it still has to FLOW too. So, for anyone making their own cold air packages, make sure you have lots of room for that volume of air.
I just dragged out my TUNE TO WIN, by Carroll Smith. He has a section on airbox design, very good of course, and basically confirms what we have seen. He says that with velocity stacks, you should have 1/2 the stack diameter as clearance to the plenum, more is better. The air trying to do the right angle turn is the problem, as we thought. He states that the job of a well designed plenum is to convert the velocity component of the air stream energy, by allowing the air stream to expand, and thus creating EQUAL pressure at all inlets, and, of course, not have turbulence at those inlets.
I just dragged out my TUNE TO WIN, by Carroll Smith. He has a section on airbox design, very good of course, and basically confirms what we have seen. He says that with velocity stacks, you should have 1/2 the stack diameter as clearance to the plenum, more is better. The air trying to do the right angle turn is the problem, as we thought. He states that the job of a well designed plenum is to convert the velocity component of the air stream energy, by allowing the air stream to expand, and thus creating EQUAL pressure at all inlets, and, of course, not have turbulence at those inlets.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
RE: Would you let these guys into your kitchen?
im in for the dyno once i stuff a ka24de in my 210, need under 1000 to make it happen