Rack And Pinion exploration

New posts disabled. Archived technical discussion about the Datsun PL510
User avatar
icehouse
Posts: 3542
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 17:06
Location: Everett Wa

Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Post by icehouse » 25 Jan 2020 16:47

eastbaysolo_73 wrote:
24 Jan 2020 19:18
Ok fellas sorry for the noob question. But how do you adjust toe in and toe out with the JBC rack? There's no adjustment bolts on the rack itself to be able to adjust this. My drivers side wheel is slightly toed in and my passenger wheel has a tad bit more toed in than drivers. Any insight on this would be very helpful. Could I possibly have bought the wrong rack maybe? Or did i fudge up the install some how?

Thanks in advance guys.
You just need to grab onto the inner tie rod with vice grips. I don't understand why it doesn't have any flat spots.... I make sure the rack is centered by measuring the exposed threads on the inner tie rod. Which is the only easy way it can be done.
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

User avatar
eastbaysolo_73
Supporter
Posts: 551
Joined: 18 May 2014 09:28
Location: Northern California

Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Post by eastbaysolo_73 » 25 Jan 2020 17:09

icehouse wrote:
25 Jan 2020 16:47
eastbaysolo_73 wrote:
24 Jan 2020 19:18
Ok fellas sorry for the noob question. But how do you adjust toe in and toe out with the JBC rack? There's no adjustment bolts on the rack itself to be able to adjust this. My drivers side wheel is slightly toed in and my passenger wheel has a tad bit more toed in than drivers. Any insight on this would be very helpful. Could I possibly have bought the wrong rack maybe? Or did i fudge up the install some how?

Thanks in advance guys.
You just need to grab onto the inner tie rod with vice grips. I don't understand why it doesn't have any flat spots.... I make sure the rack is centered by measuring the exposed threads on the inner tie rod. Which is the only easy way it can be done.
Thanks Icehouse
1970 2 door sr20det cookie cutter build
My build thread
http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30772
Nor Cal Meng !

User avatar
icehouse
Posts: 3542
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 17:06
Location: Everett Wa

Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Post by icehouse » 25 Jan 2020 17:10

eastbaysolo_73 wrote:
25 Jan 2020 17:09
icehouse wrote:
25 Jan 2020 16:47
eastbaysolo_73 wrote:
24 Jan 2020 19:18
Ok fellas sorry for the noob question. But how do you adjust toe in and toe out with the JBC rack? There's no adjustment bolts on the rack itself to be able to adjust this. My drivers side wheel is slightly toed in and my passenger wheel has a tad bit more toed in than drivers. Any insight on this would be very helpful. Could I possibly have bought the wrong rack maybe? Or did i fudge up the install some how?

Thanks in advance guys.
You just need to grab onto the inner tie rod with vice grips. I don't understand why it doesn't have any flat spots.... I make sure the rack is centered by measuring the exposed threads on the inner tie rod. Which is the only easy way it can be done.
Thanks Icehouse
No prob. Can't wait to hear what you think about it after a few drives.
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

User avatar
icehouse
Posts: 3542
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 17:06
Location: Everett Wa

Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Post by icehouse » 25 Jan 2020 17:18

I just got my coupe going. It has the V3 crossmember in it with a 2.4 lock to lock. It has over 6 degrees of caster with ZX struts. The wheels are as close as they can be to the strut, actually I'm amazed they don't rub haha. The tires are only 165 55 14" dude it drives so amazing! I can't believe how much wide tires spaced off the strut can effect just cruising around on our bad roads. Doesn't catch ruts at all and tracks so straight. It's cool to be able to go back and forth with it and my other car with 2.7 lock to lock and power assist. Turns out all 510's need power haha. I want to get the electric column for the coupe.


Image
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

User avatar
eastbaysolo_73
Supporter
Posts: 551
Joined: 18 May 2014 09:28
Location: Northern California

Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Post by eastbaysolo_73 » 25 Jan 2020 18:07

icehouse wrote:
25 Jan 2020 17:18
I just got my coupe going. It has the V3 crossmember in it with a 2.4 lock to lock. It has over 6 degrees of caster with ZX struts. The wheels are as close as they can be to the strut, actually I'm amazed they don't rub haha. The tires are only 165 55 14" dude it drives so amazing! I can't believe how much wide tires spaced off the strut can effect just cruising around on our bad roads. Doesn't catch ruts at all and tracks so straight. It's cool to be able to go back and forth with it and my other car with 2.7 lock to lock and power assist. Turns out all 510's need power haha. I want to get the electric column for the coupe.


Image
Sweet coupe
1970 2 door sr20det cookie cutter build
My build thread
http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30772
Nor Cal Meng !

User avatar
eastbaysolo_73
Supporter
Posts: 551
Joined: 18 May 2014 09:28
Location: Northern California

Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Post by eastbaysolo_73 » 26 Jan 2020 13:37

icehouse wrote:
25 Jan 2020 17:10
eastbaysolo_73 wrote:
25 Jan 2020 17:09
icehouse wrote:
25 Jan 2020 16:47


You just need to grab onto the inner tie rod with vice grips. I don't understand why it doesn't have any flat spots.... I make sure the rack is centered by measuring the exposed threads on the inner tie rod. Which is the only easy way it can be done.
Thanks Icehouse
No prob. Can't wait to hear what you think about it after a few drives.
Getting close in the middle of wiring the chassis. Motor and transmission are ready. Just a few loose ends and hopefully by summer it will move under its own power. 6 years to get here. lol
1970 2 door sr20det cookie cutter build
My build thread
http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30772
Nor Cal Meng !

User avatar
zKars
Supporter
Posts: 552
Joined: 15 Aug 2013 14:19
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada

Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Post by zKars » 06 Oct 2020 08:30

Greetings fellow R&P'ers!!!

This update is due to my replacement of the existing MotorSport-Tools.com Escort rack with a new one from them. This one has a higher lock to lock ratio, 2.9 verses the 2.4. Turns out (steering joke, sorry...) that the low speed steering effort with the sticky tires is just not practical with the 2.4 rack. I only had 2.0 turns lock to lock with it hitting the steering stops. Now I have ~2.5 TLTL and far far easier effort overall. What a difference.

I was also able to finally fix a clearance issue. Didn't know it, but some of the vibration I was getting in the cab was due to the rack body touching the oil pan. Have a nice rub mark thanks to that. A little clearance-ing of the oil pan fixed that right up.

I also realized that the u-joint clocking on the steering shaft wasn't optimal. Seems I skipped that step when I first put it together. I think this contributed more than I care to admit to the difficult steering effort.

Over all the driving experience is now much better than before.

Only real pain was the ridiculous exchange rate between CAD and the British Pound.... Ouch..... The "cheap" $134 GBP rack, with shipping, $203 GBP, turned in $363 CAD by the time it got here. 0.55xx exchange! Yikes!

Still happy with the overall experience, but If I have to be TOTALLY honest, is the steering "that much better" than it was with a stock tight steering box with new steering components throughout and the box brace? Was it worth the exhaust, oil pan, cross member and sway bar head aches??? Kind of a wash I think. Time will tell.

User avatar
icehouse
Posts: 3542
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 17:06
Location: Everett Wa

Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Post by icehouse » 06 Oct 2020 12:34

zKars wrote:
06 Oct 2020 08:30
Greetings fellow R&P'ers!!!

This update is due to my replacement of the existing MotorSport-Tools.com Escort rack with a new one from them. This one has a higher lock to lock ratio, 2.9 verses the 2.4. Turns out (steering joke, sorry...) that the low speed steering effort with the sticky tires is just not practical with the 2.4 rack. I only had 2.0 turns lock to lock with it hitting the steering stops. Now I have ~2.5 TLTL and far far easier effort overall. What a difference.
We had similar experience in our enduro car. It had the 2.4 with 225's it was very difficult at speed to catch slides and smoothly recover (I can do 13 pull ups, so strength is not the issue, also probably not as many as Duke) We smashed our car into the wall at 75ish miles per hour, this we found out later after welding a new front clip and reinstalling all the same parts that our tie rods on one side were compromised. Instead of swapping tie rods we put a 2.9 lock to lock rack in. Wow it was so much easier to steer on the track and you still didn't have to shuffle steer. So big win for us.

I do have that 2.4 rack in my coupe with cheap 165's on all 4 corners, it drives and turns easy.
zKars wrote:
06 Oct 2020 08:30

Only real pain was the ridiculous exchange rate between CAD and the British Pound.... Ouch..... The "cheap" $134 GBP rack, with shipping, $203 GBP, turned in $363 CAD by the time it got here. 0.55xx exchange! Yikes!
Wow!!! I just ordered another rack for my last steering box car which I can't wait to convert over! It was $258 US.

zKars wrote:
06 Oct 2020 08:30
Still happy with the overall experience, but If I have to be TOTALLY honest, is the steering "that much better" than it was with a stock tight steering box with new steering components throughout and the box brace? Was it worth the exhaust, oil pan, cross member and sway bar head aches??? Kind of a wash I think. Time will tell.
Gotta drive a car with a box then hope straight into a rack car. You are just forgetting how shitty the box felt. I do that from time to time until a buddy with a car will swing by or I will work on one for somebody. Makes the car feel like garbage. I also have a very high sensitivity to any shortcoming in any car. My wife had a Chevy Cobalt for a bit. Wow did it drive like trash, her or my daughter didn't even notice. They thought it drove the same as our Nissan Leaf. Not even close.
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

User avatar
zKars
Supporter
Posts: 552
Joined: 15 Aug 2013 14:19
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada

Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Post by zKars » 06 Oct 2020 12:46

Great feedback icehouse, thanks.

I suppose I should say I have a 2.4 escort rack for sale now. What did I say this last one cost? $363 CAD? Guess I’ll ask $360.....

Or whatever anyone offers that’s not silly.... It is slightly lightened from the rub spot with the oil pan, and a small amount of one bushing mount welded on tab that also was “reduced” for clearance. First picture shows both deletions..

Rack used for ~5000 km.
75A7741F-0C65-4A36-87AD-8CDFAFE69798.jpeg
75A7741F-0C65-4A36-87AD-8CDFAFE69798.jpeg (184.14 KiB) Viewed 104 times
1AC1EACE-02C2-4FC7-88F8-0E368D94266E.jpeg
1AC1EACE-02C2-4FC7-88F8-0E368D94266E.jpeg (302.25 KiB) Viewed 104 times

Post Reply