Power Assist steering anyone??

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goichi1
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Power Assist steering anyone??

Post by goichi1 » 27 Dec 2008 20:45

After talking with one of my friends that own a 4 door Skyline, I leaned that some people here in Japan have installed this in their old cars....I haven't seen any pics, or if it works good?? I think it will work and it's not an expensive part. It's out of a Suzuki Wagon-R, small japanese car, only in Japan. here's a pic of the unit, I don't think it would be too hard to fab it up in the Datsun....but I could be wrong...and not sure exactly how it works either, as far as wiring or sensors go....but I may check into it a little more.

...yea, it's electrical, no hyd lines or anything like that.
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datzenmike
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Re: Power Assist steering anyone??

Post by datzenmike » 27 Dec 2008 20:58

Looks like it assists on the steering column itself. Must sense input effort and add to it electrically. P/S that are hydraulic do it in the steering box and the column isn't stressed at all. My 620 can be turned lock to lock with a finger.

It's probably geared like a wiper motor to multiply torque and capable of quick reversal. Very interesting idea. There must be some safety checks built into this.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

goichi1
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Re: Power Assist steering anyone??

Post by goichi1 » 27 Dec 2008 21:07

yea, I thought about the stress on the steering column too, but it would be no more than that exerted by turning the wheel by hand right?? I am curious if it has any kind of sensor either in the motor housing or up near the wheel?? The Wagon R is a really small car, usually 12 or so inch wheels, maybe 4 or 6 inches wide....really not heavy too...but if it helped a little, that would be much better than what I have now! or would the current amount of force required in my car just burn the motor up??

Cmac
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Re: Power Assist steering anyone??

Post by Cmac » 27 Dec 2008 21:22

Rich I am told that a there is a shop over there that sells a kit to convert the Skyline's and 240z to the electric steering column. Also I think the newer Civic uses this set up as well as the NSX. Good find !

datzenmike
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Re: Power Assist steering anyone??

Post by datzenmike » 28 Dec 2008 09:30

It would add some stress in addition to what you would use during 'spirited driving'. I would imagine the harder you turn the more it tries to turn. In a small car it wouldn't have to be much just an assist. Power steering would be giving it too much, assisted steering would be better.

Anything that can help wrench the steering over quicker to help avoid an accident is a good thing. On long trips it would reduce fatigue. Die hard car fans might poo poo it, but I'll bet if they tried it while auto Xing they'd maybe change their mind.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

goichi1
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Re: Power Assist steering anyone??

Post by goichi1 » 28 Dec 2008 13:19

Yea, I will probably buy one and see what it will take to make it work, they are all over Yahoo Japan for anywhere from 3000 yen to 15000 yen, so not too expensive, not sure if it will take using the complete assembly or just the motor, maybe add a drive gear or something?? I will also look into finding that kit that Cmac mentioned... we shall see.

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codyisbad
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Re: Power Assist steering anyone??

Post by codyisbad » 30 Dec 2008 19:22

These things are being put into a lot of newer cars. Toyota and Lexus hybrids use electric power steering so you can turn the wheel when the engine isn't running. I'm sure eventually these units will become cheaper as they get older.

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heirfaus
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Re: Power Assist steering anyone??

Post by heirfaus » 30 Dec 2008 21:08

codyisbad wrote:These things are being put into a lot of newer cars. Toyota and Lexus hybrids use electric power steering so you can turn the wheel when the engine isn't running. I'm sure eventually these units will become cheaper as they get older.
Not sure about all makes, but the electric power steering on the RX-8 is quite different from electric assist. There is a sensor on the steering column that sense rotational changes on the RX-8. The electric assist is actually in the rack not the column.
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jesusno2
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Re: Power Assist steering anyone??

Post by jesusno2 » 30 Dec 2008 21:21

Why? Its not like a 510 is hard to turn. Personally I like how clean and uncluttered the coulum in a 510 is. Although it would be a cool idea for a hot rod or maybe rockcrawler guys?

goichi1
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Re: Power Assist steering anyone??

Post by goichi1 » 30 Dec 2008 22:44

Yea, I guess it's easy to turn with those stock 5.5 inch wheels....but with 7.5's on the front and a little heavier motor...not as easy as you think to turn....especially while trying to park.

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jason
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Re: Power Assist steering anyone??

Post by jason » 30 Dec 2008 23:20

Hah, you're gonna have forearms like Popeye now RIch :D !
Jason

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traitorjacknif
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Re: Power Assist steering anyone??

Post by traitorjacknif » 31 Dec 2008 14:13

heres link to a vendor on hybrid z selling them
http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.ph ... post968317
kinda pricey

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bertvorgon
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Re: Power Assist steering anyone??

Post by bertvorgon » 31 Dec 2008 15:48

As Rich said, only those that have really done some mods to their car, do they really know how hard it is to turn a 510, specially at low speeds.

I can tell you, from first hand experience, that when one has 6 degrees of castor, and 9.5" of race rubber tire on the road, do you really find out how hard it is to turn a 510. When I had my car set up for slaloms like that, even Swarznegger would have had trouble. As soon as the castor goes up, which then starts to induce MORE negative camber, you are literally lifting one side of the car when you turn the wheel. This is why I put the biggest diameter steering wheel on my car, and sit quite high, as I need the most leverage I can get. TO park my car at the slaloms, at parking speeds, I needed BOTH hands on one side of the steering wheel. Beyond boulevard cruising, when actually carving some fast, repetitive corners..for miles on end, steering a 510 does become quite a work out. Try road racing for 30 minutes, on a tight track, you better have some good upper body strength, and a grip that can squeeze a sealed can of Coke flat.

Sure, less castor eliminates that, but, the great handling starts to go south too.

Even in my current configuration, 5.5 castor, 1.5 negative camber, with some scrub radius and 7" rims, that car is a bear to turn at low speeds.

While this unit looks cool, my concern would be that it is lineal with load, not trying to out trick you. I have driven some cars where the power assist just plain overdrives what is needed, which makes good set up for a corner...IMPOSSIBLE!!! Worst I ever drove was an older Corvette, man did those Chevy guys get it wrong!
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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duke
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Re: Power Assist steering anyone??

Post by duke » 31 Dec 2008 20:09

Power steering by armstrong!
Duke Schimmer

'72 2-Door 510
"Simplify and add lightness."

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bertvorgon
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Re: Power Assist steering anyone??

Post by bertvorgon » 31 Dec 2008 23:50

Armstrong is right! Worst one for me, was one of our early track days with the whole 510 gang, plus some misc. other fast cars. After 5 x 20 minutes sessions, I could not really hold the car in a line during the last session, my arms were bagged. A slight power assist would sure be nice under those situations. Andy has power racks on the GT3 cars. I wish I could have the steering my Toyota GTS has, nice positive rack, with a total lineal feel to it. I can toss the Toyota into a corner big time, and the pwer steering does not over boost it at all. The steering effort still has a good "road feel" to it, and like my Datsun, I run as much castor in it as I can.

that electric boost system must have some sort of both force and feed speed sensors in it. Imagine how fast you can pitch a car into a corner...it would have to both be able to tell the speed has gone up instantly, AND, NOT give it so much, that you would have to unwind it dramatically. I hate "lag" in any steering, so would not want anything that could not keep up to very fast, transient steering input(s)
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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