all you ever wanted to know about gas...

New posts disabled. Archived technical discussion about the Datsun PL510

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bertvorgon
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RE: all you ever wanted to know about gas...

Post by bertvorgon » 09 Dec 2004 20:07

Hey Rob
You have No idea how hysterical I find your link on here! I was just in the process of finishing an article on gas. I was on the NWN site and noticed a post on fuel. After reading a bit, I realized there is a ton of information (and misinformation) that most paople do not know. I did an article on gas when they first pulled the lead out.
I had my 1972 510 then. It started pinging all of a sudden, when I was putting in 98 Octane gas. I checked EVERYTHING over. I could not figure out why it was doing that. I finally phoned the refinery, when I heard that we were all going to go to un-leaded. I finally found a guy in the lab, who, after hearing my plight, and knew I had a real concern ( as did anyone with a hi po motor) told me the straight goods. Because of the TRACE amounts of leaded still left in the tank....they could not call it un-leaded!!!!! So, they started PUTTING un-leaded in, to basically flush the tanks out!!!! BUt, the pump still had 98 on it, not the 92 that it had DROPPED TO!!!! I was real lucky that I did not burn down a motor. It took about a month, If I remember correctly, before the pumps ACTUALLY stated the octane, which was of course 92. 94 did not come back till much later. Thats when I went to Aviation fuel. I wrote an article explaing the MON & RON numbers, how they were derived, etc., and what was really meaning full to a racer, or person with a high performance engine. If you get the brochures from the race gas manufacturers, you will see that they use the MON number, which is the real world number most meaningful to us. That is GREAT that you found that link!!! I was only going to up-date mine just abit anyhow. Now, I'm going to look on the internet for the shelf life of Aviation fuel. I tried phoning Chevron the other day, but, I'm still waiting for a call.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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bertvorgon
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RE: all you ever wanted to know about gas...

Post by bertvorgon » 09 Dec 2004 20:31

I just finished reading that link, EXCELLENT! Really explains octane, etc..
You should all read this article on gasoline.
P.S. I need a place to store 2-45 gallon drums of Avgas.
Turn7's wife won't let us store it in the kids play house!
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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gooned
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RE: all you ever wanted to know about gas...

Post by gooned » 09 Dec 2004 22:23

jeeze whats the problem...you have a basment :lol:

510rob
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RE: all you ever wanted to know about gas...

Post by 510rob » 09 Dec 2004 22:45

If they are too heavy to get down into the basement, just put them both in your front hall...

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supersportsedan
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RE: all you ever wanted to know about gas...

Post by supersportsedan » 09 Dec 2004 23:02

Time to invest in a 510 club warehouse.

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RE: all you ever wanted to know about gas...

Post by 510rob » 09 Dec 2004 23:04

Keith, the part at the end of the 4th section, detailing the Honda F1 turbo motors, is VERY interesting... I never realized they were running 84:16 toluene/heptane as fuel!!!

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bertvorgon
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RE: all you ever wanted to know about gas...

Post by bertvorgon » 10 Dec 2004 07:00

Some crazy things have been tried, I know what we have experimented with over the years. It is amazing that our skin has not fallen off and that my off spring do not have three eyes! Just after they removed the lead from our gas, I used to buy analine oil by the gallon, as an octane booster. That stuff turned out to be highly carcinagenic. Some of the other things are still top secrect. What I also found good to know, for me specifically, was that the Avgas is still 100 lean and 130 rich. I was never sure when they changed to the 100LL label from 100/130. As I run my motor quite rich on the top end, and that small carb actually richens up at the top end, the octane number must be pretty good. That must be why I get away with the boost level and compression I have. At least the low lead stuff lets me get a season out of the O2 sensor. Also, that the shelf life of Avgas is very good. It would have to be considering it sits in planes and underground tanks for a long time. I read quite a few articles last night and they all confirm 5 years in a sealed drum. I have pilot friends who have used 2 year old gas in their planes and piston helicopters, with obviously no problems.
I have no room on my basement due to all the bikes, and I have no halls.
I like the 510 warehouse idea! Gooned is out in the country, and was only going to put some playground or something out back of his place, I think we should build there! It is going to be time to buy more gas....so....some one needs to step up to the plate pretty fast here! The drums only weigh 360 pounds each ( or 163 kilos for you metric guys) , just in case you are worried about you floor loading. About the same as your big screen TV. As a matter of fact... we could put the TV ON the drums, get rid of that tacky TV stand you are using now, keep the racing theme going while you are watching Speed Vision. Anybody?
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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supersportsedan
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Re: RE: all you ever wanted to know about gas...

Post by supersportsedan » 10 Dec 2004 11:04

bertvorgon wrote:As a matter of fact... we could put the TV ON the drums, get rid of that tacky TV stand you are using now, keep the racing theme going while you are watching Speed Vision. Anybody?
AWESOME idea Keith!!! I'll do it!!

Now who's gonna buy me a big screen?

If you caught me living at my bachelor pad a few years ago, I would have insisted that you store it in my basement. It was an all man house that reeked of testosterone. The drums would have been a nice touch.

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RE: Re: RE: all you ever wanted to know about gas...

Post by 510rob » 10 Dec 2004 11:59

I like the 510 warehouse idea
I thought that was Gary Koehn's shop?!?

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bertvorgon
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RE: Re: RE: all you ever wanted to know about gas...

Post by bertvorgon » 10 Dec 2004 17:26

I thought of Gary, but, he has soooo much stuff out there, I thought Caroline might object. I really think Jason's is the way to go. Haven't heard from him yet though. I think he is so excited he can't type yet.
In leu of that, Paul, what is wrong with your place now? Your very close to the plant, so it would be easy for me to come over to fuel up. How long of a hose do I need from your living room. I'll bring my slippers so we can keep the dirt down to a dull roar. You don't smoke do you? What brand of coffee do you have, takes a few minutes to fuel up. Is breakfast a good time? I like pancakes and bacon. Did I tell you that Turn7 might be sharing some. Do you have four chairs?
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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RE: Re: RE: all you ever wanted to know about gas...

Post by supersportsedan » 10 Dec 2004 23:10

You know what Keith, why don't you just go ahead and bring 'em over. My wife can be very understanding. I'll just explain that it's for the greater good, and she'll be happy to open up our home to the Avgas. We can just blast a hole through the wall, (don't mind those family pictures) and install a tap on the outside of the house, so you can come and go as you please. But we'll leave a key under the mat in case you spill any and need to come inside and wash up. Don't worry about taking your shoes off, my wife's a whiz at getting stains out. No, we don't smoke but the only available space we have is next to our fireplace. Coffee is flown in daily from Columbia except on weekends when they don't fly and we have to use Jamaican Blue Mountain. Breakfast is always a good time, don't be afraid to come early, I know how you like to beat the traffic. Sorry we don't usually do pancakes, just crepes and Belgian waffles with pure maple syrup from the tree out back. And hey feel free to drop in on your way home from a ride on the North Shore, we've got lots of hot water and plenty of towels. Rachael can wash your riding gear while you shower and lunch will be waiting we usually have lobster on Sundays. Lots of chairs, so bring your friends, as long as they're paying members of the 510 club BRENT. Ciao!

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gooned
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RE: Re: RE: all you ever wanted to know about gas...

Post by gooned » 10 Dec 2004 23:39

hey joshua has to learn about the smells of racing sooner or later..i'll just make his playhouse big enough for a couple of "climbing drums"-nicole won't mind.

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RE: Re: RE: all you ever wanted to know about gas...

Post by rnorrish » 11 Dec 2004 01:36

hey Jason,

don't worry about kids and the smells of racing... I've only thought the smell of WD-40 is the best thing ever since..... i was a kid.

Brent and Keith, you crack me up.
richard norrish
'68 'goon resto / '71 ice racer / '72 'goon project / '70 4-door rust pile / '67 520 project
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shardik wrote: My swap will be made of solid gold and it will run on puppy farts.

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RE: Re: RE: all you ever wanted to know about gas...

Post by pokey » 11 Dec 2004 02:52

Kind of a fun fact about octane ratings... Here in Germany, they post the higher of the two Octane numbers. (I forget right now if that is the RON or MON) so they always say that the gas has a lower octane rating in north america. In all actuality, it is almost exactly the same gas. Just the numbers are different.
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