my suspension conversion, mainly caster

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icehouse
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my suspension conversion, mainly caster

Post by icehouse » 28 Dec 2005 23:30

Well I don't really know to start so ill just start like this, I put a s-12 crossmember in my 510 and to those who have thought about it before will know what I'm talking about. I had to move the hole crossmember back in the car, but I came up 1\2 an inch shy due to clearance issues. My question is if the control arm was 1\2 to a 1\4 farther forward how would the car drive? What is the effect of more caster?
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

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duke
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Post by duke » 29 Dec 2005 00:26

more caster is a good thing. more camber is gained in cornering on the outside wheel (the wheel you want it on). if you talk to guys like byron they like to run alot of caster. it will also make the steering more self centering.

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Post by icehouse » 29 Dec 2005 07:21

So even for a streat car it would be fine?
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

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Post by duke » 29 Dec 2005 12:22

yeah, on my car, which is my daily driver, i have camber plates that also increase caster. having more caster makes it so you don't have to run as much camber and still get the benefits of it in cornering.

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Post by bertvorgon » 29 Dec 2005 13:08

Most of us run about 5.5 degrees of castor ( on average). This will, as stated, induce negative camber as the steering is turned tighter. More castor does make the car very stable at high speed. Trade off, depending on the width of your tire, and the scrub radius, that steering is heavier at slow speed. You actually can see one side of the car raise up, as you turn the wheel, and the camber changes. I have run up to 6+ degrees of castor for serious slalom use, of course looking for the best camber on tight slaloms. In my opinion, 510's really like a good bit of castor.
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1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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icehouse
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Post by icehouse » 29 Dec 2005 15:28

So if I wanted to find\mesure the degress I was running I would need to level the car, I guess off the rocker...? Or something square on the car and then us my degree finder that levels itself to the earth? Does that sound right?
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

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Post by bertvorgon » 29 Dec 2005 19:50

Hi Icehouse,
As much as I have the book in front of me, it is not easily explained, at least for me. I have only used an actual castor gauge, or, had my alignment shop do it when I had to change a bunch of settings. Even the "How to make your car handle" book, says doing it the way you are saying, is just not accurate enough. To many things get in the way of getting a good measure of the rise and fall of the spindle. It is very important to have castor pretty much equal on both sides, I have found.
I would maybe try to get the car to an alignment shop, when you are ready to set up all your suspension settings. I have done the string thing, etc., myself, but, I find the alignment shop is just plain better. Specially, if you find a shop that will listen to YOU, and take the time to get it all set up properly. Shoot for 1/2 tank of gas, and, either you, or someone of your weight, should sit in the car while it is being aligned. This gives you the best real world setting for most of your driving. It all helps.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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icehouse
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Post by icehouse » 30 Dec 2005 13:54

Well I guess ill just bolt it into my car and take it for a spin.
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

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Post by Five10packs » 31 Dec 2005 15:35

So the s12 front crossmember fits hugh? DOes it matter if it was from a IRS or solid rear end? That car uses a rack and pinion steering, right?

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Post by icehouse » 31 Dec 2005 16:20

S12 is 84-88 all irs and it takes quite a bit to get it into a 510 when I'm done ill tell you if its worth it.
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Post by Five10packs » 31 Dec 2005 17:17

Does the L series engine fit right into this crossmember? Sorry, I don't know so much about the L series and the napz engines.

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Post by duke » 01 Jan 2006 23:29

Why did you install an s12 crossmember in the first place?
Duke Schimmer

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icehouse
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Post by icehouse » 02 Jan 2006 12:25

First no the L engine won't fit unless you modify the oil pan. Well I bet if you got all the different L oil pans you could find one that would fit.

I decided to use the s12 crossmember because once I get it into the car the angles should be perfect. If you add a rack to the 510 crossmember you'll end up with bump stear. and you can use s13 or s14 spindles if you want on the s12 the balljoints are the same. I geuss you can do that with 510 suspension to if you want to weild the 2 arms togather.

Why not use the s12 crossmember?
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Post by Five10packs » 02 Jan 2006 15:29

icehouse wrote:First no the L engine won't fit unless you modify the oil pan. Well I bet if you got all the different L oil pans you could find one that would fit.

I decided to use the s12 crossmember because once I get it into the car the angles should be perfect. If you add a rack to the 510 crossmember you'll end up with bump stear. and you can use s13 or s14 spindles if you want on the s12 the balljoints are the same. I geuss you can do that with 510 suspension to if you want to weild the 2 arms togather.

Why not use the s12 crossmember?
Not bad, I would prefer rack and pinion also. It would save a lot of time for the fabrication of the mounting. I am very curious. So how would the clearance be with a ka24de? Is there an issue with the oilpan?

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Post by Five10packs » 02 Jan 2006 16:18

icehouse wrote:First no the L engine won't fit unless you modify the oil pan. Well I bet if you got all the different L oil pans you could find one that would fit.
So besides oil pan, the L series bolts right in?

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