replacing mustache bushings

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bertvorgon
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Postby bertvorgon » 13 Oct 2006 17:35

Possibly, that's what I used to find, that the shifter would just start to shake like crazy, then, at really high speed, the whole cars just kinda does not feel good, at least thats the best I can describe it. You can just feel the vibration in the seat of your pants.

I believe angularity is an issue with any driveshaft. Long ones are the worst of course, which is why we have the sort of problems...which is why alot of new cars have TWO drive shafts, with a steady bearing in between. My GTS has this. Shaft still has to be balanced, but, the angularity issue is really not.

What size of motor do you have? The 2.1- 2.2 variations are notorious for a harmonic vibration between 3,000 and 4,000 RPM.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
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defdes
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Postby defdes » 13 Oct 2006 18:04

bertvorgon wrote:What size of motor do you have? The 2.1- 2.2 variations are notorious for a harmonic vibration between 3,000 and 4,000 RPM.

Thats me, 2.2 LZ stroked and ported etc, up around 85 mph I feel like my head is going to explode from the harmonic activity in the cabin. So you think this isue could be solved/helped with some tweaking of the dif/trans relationship?
That's funny that you have experienced it as well, as you said, it's really not a good feeling....

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bertvorgon
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Postby bertvorgon » 13 Oct 2006 18:21

Long trips can be a pain, that's for sure. That's the bugger with the 2.2's, is, depending on your final drive ratio, it pretty much puts that bloody vibration right in the cruise zone. It would not hurt to check things, but, that is really a motor issue, not a driveline issue. This may sound funny, but, on my race seat, I made my own seat cushion, just to help with that seat of the pants type of vibration. Two years ago I had my race shop make me a new drive shaft, and of course, made sure the angularity is EXCELLENT. As most of my suspension is solid mounted, I get that same sort of underlying vibration too. I guess thats the price we pay for our street driven race cars. The 2.4's that the shop races (which are racing tommorrow AM in Topeka, Collin's on the pole GT-3) have huge vibration/harmonic issues from the motor. You would not beleive the mounts/brackets/silicone used to keep the Tilton starter motors from breaking off, etc.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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heirfaus
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Postby heirfaus » 13 Oct 2006 18:24

Yo def,

you said it worked well in your race car. When you put it in the new car did you reinstall the tabs in the same spot in the diff mounting spots? Just a thought........ :?
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defdes
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Postby defdes » 13 Oct 2006 18:33

I took it out of my street car to put it in my race car for one race until I found one to put in there permanantly. When I was doing so, I was thinking about that vibration, and whether it was going to be an issue with the L16 buzzing up over 100mph. It was then I realized it was something in the street car set up that was causing the problem. As for the alignment issue on the mounts heirfaus, yeah I paint penned it when I took it off, and tried it the other way when I re-installed ... same problem.

Dayton12
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Re: replacing mustache bushings size and part numbers-update

Postby Dayton12 » 20 Mar 2011 23:15

On my Datsun IRS I have (should be unless replaced by PO, or Datsun substituted) a mustache bar out of a 1973 610 wagon. Does anyone have a fair guess if this would be the larger or smaller diameter bushing? I live and work in China so before I go back to the US every summer I like to have my parts ready for installation- so measuring mine beforehand may not be feasible.

I presume the larger style would be the same as the earlier Z cars. I did not see a reply on the post to the part numbers for the Z car but this is what i have come up with.

Also has anyone found another way other than heating/burning the old bushings out. My car is a show car quality used as a summer daily (US return) driver...........

Part numbers and prices I found online for the larger bushings....

Polyurethane

Rear Mustache Bar Bushings Prothane Brand
1970-1973 Datsun 240Z
1974 Datsun 260Z
1975-1978 Datsun 280Z

Kit #14-1602-BL (Prothane)
Price range I found online ($25-45)



Energy Suspension 71102G
Differential Carrier Bushing Datsun Z Cars
Part Number ENE71102G
Size
Color/Finish Black / graphite impregnanted
Energy Suspension 71102G

Your Price $23.25
List: $36.69


Dayton

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okayfine
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Re: replacing mustache bushings

Postby okayfine » 21 Mar 2011 08:06

I don't think a 610 wagon would have had IRS, so no mustache bar. A 610 sedan would, and would very likely have used the late PL510 parts.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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andrew.lori
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Re: replacing mustache bushings

Postby andrew.lori » 21 Mar 2011 17:32

Saw this posting today and it made me curious whether My ES Mustache bushing kits would fit my cars ..... NOPE they fall right through the hole ???
I think I'll have a friend cut some new custom Bushings to fit my mustache bars

AM
1966 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A
1970 Datsun 510 CASC Road Racer ( to be restored )
1972 Datsun 510 SR Monster Sold it
1977 Datsun 200SX
1973 Toyota Celica
1972 Triumph GT6 SCCA Vintage Race Car / Money Pit
1972 Mazda 808 ... 39k original Miles

Dayton12
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Re: replacing mustache bushings

Postby Dayton12 » 21 Mar 2011 20:13

Thanks, but would the late 510/610 use the smaller or larger dia. bushings?

Three B's Racing
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Re: replacing mustache bushings

Postby Three B's Racing » 24 Mar 2011 12:28

Dayton12 wrote:Thanks, but would the late 510/610 use the smaller or larger dia. bushings?


Larger 2.0" dia.

http://www.new-datsun-parts.com/datsun- ... rior1.html Got mine here.
"Lastnight the wife said oh boy when your dead you can't take nothing with you but your soul oh "Think"
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Three B's Racing
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Re: replacing mustache bushings

Postby Three B's Racing » 24 Mar 2011 12:30

Three B's Racing wrote:
Dayton12 wrote:Thanks, but would the late 510/610 use the smaller or larger dia. bushings?


Larger 2.0" dia.

http://www.new-datsun-parts.com/datsun- ... rior1.html Got mine here.



Oops! Wrong one 8>0 go here http://www.racetep.com/datsunsusp.html
"Lastnight the wife said oh boy when your dead you can't take nothing with you but your soul oh "Think"
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andrew.lori
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Re: replacing mustache bushings

Postby andrew.lori » 24 Mar 2011 12:47

This is the reply I got regarding the Size from Top End Performance
Part Number CIN245 o.d.= 1.955”
1966 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A
1970 Datsun 510 CASC Road Racer ( to be restored )
1972 Datsun 510 SR Monster Sold it
1977 Datsun 200SX
1973 Toyota Celica
1972 Triumph GT6 SCCA Vintage Race Car / Money Pit
1972 Mazda 808 ... 39k original Miles

Dayton12
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Re: replacing mustache bushings

Postby Dayton12 » 24 Mar 2011 20:58

This is the reply I got regarding the Size from Top End Performance
Part Number CIN245 o.d.= 1.955”

So according to their description/application for the CIN245 it would be the same as the 240/260/280Z cars? Sort of confusing because they also offer part number CIN247 that fits 510/610 but not the Z cars.

Does anybody have information to help on this point?

Thanks

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510wizard
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Re: replacing mustache bushings

Postby 510wizard » 25 Mar 2011 06:42

Here is some more additional info from my thread on bushings, that I gathered when I was looking for bushings for my custom mustache bar. Please note that the metal outer bushing on the stock rubber must be left in the mustache bar for the ES bushings to work. If someone has a set of the ES #7-1104 and could measure them , I would add them to the chart.


510wizard wrote:I received the Energy Suspension mustache bushings #7-1102 (in the ES catalog these are under the listing for the Z car, not the 510- but also works for the later 510's), the following are the sizes and also the sizes of the Whiteline for comparison. If I had the Energy Suspension mustache bushings #7-1104 (for the early 510), I would of added those to the chart.

Image

Whiteline #W91614 A=49.7mm B=22.2mm C=33.9

Whiteline #W92460 A=40mm B=22.2mm C=34.2mm

Energy Suspension #7-1102 A 46.1mm B=22.4mm C=34.1mm D=12.5mm

It appears that with Whiteline bushings, that the user must remove the inner metal and the rubber. With the ES, you leave the inner metal and just remove the rubber. I am to assume that ES just uses what they had from a other application, where the Whiteline's are custom made to the 510 & the Z car. I am now on to the custom mustache bar.

Dayton12
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Re: replacing mustache bushings

Postby Dayton12 » 25 Mar 2011 22:27

It would seem that the better replacement would be one that where the outer metal piece of the OEM bushing was replaced/removed and that the aftermarket bushing would fit tight without the outer metal piece being used. Would most agree with this comment/method?

Also thanks for the research and posting of the dimensions of the aftermarket bushings.


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