Rack And Pinion exploration

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bertvorgon
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Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Postby bertvorgon » 21 Feb 2016 10:46

That's a great story!

We used to have an old airport for our BIG slaloms, and as the lots got tighter, I wound the castor back down. I also got rid of the silly small steering wheel that was in vogue back then, and went with a larger one, just to get more leverage, then, dropped the steering column down almost an inch, and then I sit kinda high, both for good visibility, but more important was leverage on the steering. Worked very well!

It's funny that for the most part, no one ever really took notice that the top of the strut was back, and then of course the adjustable t/c rods. If you step way back and look at a side view of my car, then you can see how much we increased the wheel base.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

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1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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icehouse
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Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Postby icehouse » 24 Feb 2016 22:35

Small rack update:

Working towards having it in the car in a few weeks. Started machining out two sets of steering knuckles. Also modifying our prototype crossmember because of a few changes we made to hopefully have the proper amount of ackerman. Or at least what we think it should have. Sam also found a point higher that still keeps the bump steer low. At this point we just want to drive it and see if it needs any tweeks. I'm excited to drive a 510 with 2 turns lock to lock, very little to no bump steer and what we think is good ackerman. I took some photo's of what we've been doing.


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I had to pull off my rack mounts because the power rack takes a slightly different mount on one side and we adjusted the angle the steering shaft sits. Thanks Dave for letting us know that the steering shaft angle can affect steering speed! We seem to have equaled out the angles.

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Almost done with the second operation.


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My mill all dirty!

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We sure have collected a lot of steering junk!!


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bertvorgon wrote:What castor are you running? We run 5.5 minimum and the the time when I was solo'ing full time I ran just over 6 degrees. I ran either ZERO TOE or, at full combat time, I ran a gnats eyebrow of TOE OUT, which helped the car turn in as the courses got tighter.

YUP..it is a bear to steer in the parking lot, but, it makes the car very stable at high speed and in terms of solo use, induces MORE negative camber in tight solo turns, which really gives the front end bite.

My AE86 was one of the best steering cars I have ever had! It was slightly power assisted, yet was TOTALLY lineal, no over or under boosting steering input. If I could have that on my 510 I would think I have died and gone to heaven.

I did my own suspension the AE86, basically I duplicated the settings of the 510 up front. #300 springs, pulled as much castor into it as I could, camber I left stock as it seemed to be ok. I put the 5 way Illumina shocks in there and ran at #4 for summer driving. That car worked very, very well

I have mentioned this before also, believe it or not. With that much castor, at some points on the course, it was better to just almost let go of the steering wheel, and let the self centering action of the high castor, straighten the wheels, faster that I could reef it back. It became one of timing, but, it worked a hot damn at times. It also made the car dead stable at speeds over 120 - 130 MPH.



I'm not sure the caster I'm running. Not much more than stock. I did however realign my car a few weeks ago. I was in a hurry the first time aligning the rear with Byron's brackets. I got it to what I thought was zero toe.... After rechecking when it wasn't the middle of the night I found it was still slightly toed out. I fixed that and added a little bit of toe in to the front. Then drove my car to Oregon and back LOTS of miles! It drove alright, not good. Then when I went racing last weekend I put my "race tires" on they are tread wear 200 so not to much race :) It drove amazing! I think two of my all seasons are just plane wore out. I took first in RWD again, well technically second, it turns out they don't count times after a certain point. So I guess I got second :)
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

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bertvorgon
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Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Postby bertvorgon » 27 Feb 2016 08:31

Rear toe in, as I'm sure you know I am a big fan of, and quite a bit, just makes the rear so much more stable, as it does not try to steer the car when you least need it to do that.

It makes lineal slaloms much more predictable, as you can snap out of the throttle to get the car to rotate, and it will not want to oversteer on you.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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icehouse
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Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Postby icehouse » 28 Feb 2016 18:56

small steps but steps never the less. Two sets of steering knuckles built! Well almost waiting on a tapered reamer for the ball joint and tie rod then they will be done. Also started on the monster "bump steer spacers"


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"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

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Mattndew76
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Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Postby Mattndew76 » 29 Feb 2016 15:24

How tall is the stack on those RCA's?

duh 65mm

Jeff you seen these?

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Byron510
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Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Postby Byron510 » 29 Feb 2016 16:24

Those are cool Matt, but I looked into them - they are for an S30 Chassis - great for 1200 guys as i believe they match the strut spacing, but no good for the PL510/280ZX struts as the bolt pattern is a different center to center distance.

Damn!! But here is the S30 part number anyways.

Byron
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Mattndew76
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Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Postby Mattndew76 » 29 Feb 2016 17:28

I can make these with the right spacing.
An Idea doesn't work unless you do.

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icehouse
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Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Postby icehouse » 29 Feb 2016 21:58

I doubt it will have the right ackerman. Also ours are about 1" sorter than stock. We do want to try and see how the ZX ones look in our model since they were designed for rack and pinion.
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

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icehouse
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Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Postby icehouse » 15 Mar 2016 19:45

We did it! Finally installed and just in time for our last autoX! Sounds like they are going to put on some summer events so maybe I'll get to race more this year! We finished installing the crossmember at about 4am and had to be up at 7:30..... So lets just say I didn't race as well as I'd hoped to. New quick steering with only the drive to the track to get used to it. Then it poured rain most of the day. My summer tires don't like the rain one bit. Sleep deprived and all I somehow pulled off 3rd in RWD. I don't quite understand how. My car was very unpredictable in the standing water. I'm really getting used to the new steering setup and loving it more by the day. So quick and stable. We didn't check the bump on our suspension jig, just not enough time. I'm going to bring my car to my bro's work so we can do some laser testing on there fancy alignment rack. I can't wait to see the bump steer graph. Here are some pics of the progress. It's cool in the autoX pic how you can see the lower unused LCA hole. Its pretty bad ass how you can draw all the parts on the computer and design the suspension and have it work so well in the prototype.


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I ended up welding all the shafts. With the power rack and a modified down pipe the U-joint was really close to the exhaust.

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Front sump L series in a 510 goon!

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Had to slightly bend my TC rods because I machined the tappers to deep :(

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"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

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icehouse
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Re:

Postby icehouse » 15 Mar 2016 19:51

icehouse wrote:Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:34 am
I have plans on redoing my rack setup. It works well but there is always room for improvment. I also want to raise the engine and crossmember so I can lower my car more :)


Only took about 9 years but got that shit done! Can't believe how much I jammed in my brain since then.
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

eastbaysolo_73
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Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Postby eastbaysolo_73 » 15 Mar 2016 20:09

Bad ass!
Nor Cal Meng !

510rob
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Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Postby 510rob » 16 Mar 2016 01:17

nice work guys.

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Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Postby 510rob » 16 Mar 2016 01:24

8 years 5 months 5 days
or 101 months 5 days
or 439 weeks 6 days
or 3079 days

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McShagger510
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Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Postby McShagger510 » 16 Mar 2016 22:55

Looks great - can't wait to try!

James
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'72 2dr. 510 Turbo
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mroverkill
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Re: Rack And Pinion exploration

Postby mroverkill » 18 Mar 2016 16:12

Glad to see your build rolling again, Jeff.

Still working on mine...


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