Whitebird

Only the most active and interesting projects from our members. Projects must be approved to be in this forum
Post Reply
User avatar
okayfine
Supporter
Posts: 14138
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:02
Location: Newbury Park, CA

Adjustable Rear Sway Bar

Post by okayfine » 05 Jan 2009 13:11

To compliment the front bar, I made up an adjustable rear bar in 7/8" Stressproof as well. Again I took inspiration from BRE.

I browsed through the How To Modify book, which briefly detailed the rear bar used on the Trans-Am cars. They routed the bar backwards, similar to what Whiteline had done with their version. If I had started this project much earlier (like, in the beginning, when I had the rear end all apart), I might have followed BRE again for the rear. Looking at everything already installed, I wasn't excited about the prospect of undoing and redoing a bunch of work.

Further reading of the How To Modify book actually discussed that very issue. Bob Waar made comments about the difficulty of installation of the original BRE rear sway bar, and how they came up with a new design for the racer/customer bars. This design is similar to that copied by ST and Quickor, where the sway bar center section is mounted to the rear crossmember and the arms are connected below to the spring cups on the A-Arms.

It just so happened that I had a copy of the original typed BRE installation instructions for this version of the BRE rear sway bar. This document included a template to mark holes to drill into the rear crossmember to mount the sway bar bushings (again I used ES items). This template proved handy, as looks are deceiving when you're upside down underneath the car looking at the angled arms of the rear crossmember and attempting to determine how to align the sway bar bushing mounting locations.

Once that was done, however, the rest of the install was basically a breeze. Creating the rear sway bar from a second length of Stressproof was easier than the front bar, as the rear bar only has one bend per side.

Image

One thing I didn't mention in the front sway bar post is the flats I ground into the ends of the sway bars. This flat section (made via careful angle grinder application using a grinding wheel followed by a flapper sanding disc) made it easy to drill the adjustable mounting holes and gave the end link balls a full surface to stand against. 3/8" hardware with Nyloc nuts completed the installation.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

User avatar
duke
Supporter
Posts: 1857
Joined: 26 Oct 2005 14:21
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: Whitebird

Post by duke » 05 Jan 2009 14:32

The manifold looks really good, almost factory if you didn't know any better. I also like how nice the SU's and linkage bits look, especially with the zinc coating.

I also like the swaybars that you have bent up. I have been contemplating doing the same for the front, albeit with 1 1/8" stressproof, but pretty much the same idea. Glad to see that the project is progressing nicely.
Duke Schimmer

'72 2-Door 510
"Simplify and add lightness."

User avatar
defdes
Supporter
Posts: 5047
Joined: 12 May 2005 14:45
Location: Vermont

Re: Whitebird

Post by defdes » 05 Jan 2009 14:45

looks great. Do you have a detail picture of the front standoff mounting points?

User avatar
okayfine
Supporter
Posts: 14138
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:02
Location: Newbury Park, CA

Re: Whitebird

Post by okayfine » 05 Jan 2009 14:49

defdes wrote:looks great. Do you have a detail picture of the front standoff mounting points?
I do, but not with me. If you follow the link in the properties of the picture, you can click through to an embiggened picture which might show it better - but it's all black parts underneath so it's kind of hidden.

It's just some 1.5" x 3" box tube that I cut to 4" lengths, then welded in the area of the OE front sway bar bushing mounts. I pushed it against the front crossmember and lined it with the inside edges of the frame rails. Just clears the T/C rod through the full movement of the suspension.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

User avatar
defdes
Supporter
Posts: 5047
Joined: 12 May 2005 14:45
Location: Vermont

Re: Whitebird

Post by defdes » 05 Jan 2009 15:18

No problem...I just copied it to photoshop and lightened it up and blew it up. Did you do this for clearance or to get the bar more parallel to the ground?

User avatar
okayfine
Supporter
Posts: 14138
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:02
Location: Newbury Park, CA

Re: Whitebird

Post by okayfine » 05 Jan 2009 15:29

defdes wrote:No problem...I just copied it to photoshop and lightened it up and blew it up. Did you do this for clearance or to get the bar more parallel to the ground?
I cracked two bolts off in one of the front frame mounts, and snapped an Easy Out in one of those. So I was either going to have to cut and weld in a new piece with captured nuts (tough to do with the front crossmember mounted) or...do what I did.

If I used the standard frame mounts, I would have had to buy an aftermarket front bar as the time and expense of developing a jig to reliably bend a front bar to go around the sump would have amounted to more money, time, and trouble that it was worth.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

User avatar
S15DET
Supporter
Posts: 2561
Joined: 03 Dec 2004 17:02
Location: Waxhaw, NC

Re: Whitebird

Post by S15DET » 08 Jan 2009 18:51

I love Whitebird, I dig everything about the ideas for the project.
Where are you getting the stressproof?

User avatar
icehouse
Posts: 3409
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 17:06
Location: Everett Wa

Re: Whitebird

Post by icehouse » 08 Jan 2009 19:05

What about ground clearance on the front sway bar? I've seen those style bars on other dimes, it seems that they would hit the ground if the driver wasn't careful. Is your engine on the 510 mounts with the flipped x-member? If so the pan is about the same height as the crossmember which would make the bar even lower.... Let me know how it works out :D

edit: I went back and looked, so you did raise the engine a bit, thats good. I'm still wondering how much lower the bar is than the x-member?
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

User avatar
okayfine
Supporter
Posts: 14138
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:02
Location: Newbury Park, CA

Re: Whitebird

Post by okayfine » 09 Jan 2009 08:05

S15DET wrote:I love Whitebird, I dig everything about the ideas for the project.
Where are you getting the stressproof?
Onlinemetals.com, Carbon 1144, very inexpensive (at least compared to buying sway bar sets).
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

User avatar
okayfine
Supporter
Posts: 14138
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:02
Location: Newbury Park, CA

Re: Whitebird

Post by okayfine » 09 Jan 2009 08:10

icehouse wrote:What about ground clearance on the front sway bar? I've seen those style bars on other dimes, it seems that they would hit the ground if the driver wasn't careful. Is your engine on the 510 mounts with the flipped x-member? If so the pan is about the same height as the crossmember which would make the bar even lower.... Let me know how it works out :D

edit: I went back and looked, so you did raise the engine a bit, thats good. I'm still wondering how much lower the bar is than the x-member?
I built new towers for the engine mounts when I flipped the crossmember. Bar is below the bottom level of the crossmember, and the bottom of the oil pan and the crossmember are about the same.

Whitebird's going to sit at ~7" at the rockers. I'd rather bonk the sway bar than the oil pan, anyway. I don't see ground clearance being a major issue, but that remains to be seen. The ends of the bar are lower than I'd like, but I don't see this being a huge deal. My blue KA510 was much lower (though running a conventional sway bar) and I didn't really have problems in the five years I drove it. Mostly city, freeway, well-travelled canyons, and all our roads are in decent nic.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

User avatar
S15DET
Supporter
Posts: 2561
Joined: 03 Dec 2004 17:02
Location: Waxhaw, NC

Re: Whitebird

Post by S15DET » 09 Jan 2009 09:00

When the car is drivable, please give us a handling comparison with, and without the rear bar. I'm working on my front bar now, but at the advice of others on this forum, and from my experience racing a ITS RX-7, I'm not planning to use a rear bar at all.
You're using solid bar, what size?

User avatar
XeroX
Posts: 374
Joined: 19 Oct 2008 04:23
Location: Sacramento, CA
Contact:

Re: Whitebird

Post by XeroX » 09 Jan 2009 09:10

I am really impressed by this whole project, i love the personal touches, and once this is finished it will truly be a great addition to the 510 comunity :)

I must have spent about 45 minutes last night reading most of this thread! I am really loving the interior as well, gauges look amazing!

Up untill this point i was not even aware that they had a carburated Sr20de... :x :!:

Non-the-less. I really like the style your going for and im a HUGE fan of those rims :) well pretty much the whole car to be honest...

Keep up the good work :)
I dont drink and drive, i SMOKE and FLY!

User avatar
okayfine
Supporter
Posts: 14138
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:02
Location: Newbury Park, CA

Re: Whitebird

Post by okayfine » 09 Jan 2009 09:10

S15DET wrote:When the car is drivable, please give us a handling comparison with, and without the rear bar. I'm working on my front bar now, but at the advice of others on this forum, and from my experience racing a ITS RX-7, I'm not planning to use a rear bar at all.
You're using solid bar, what size?
7/8"

Lots of people don't use a rear bar, but their suspension setup (and, hence, their planned driving style) are much different than mine.

I call it the Canada Suspension, and involves stiff (250 in/lb+) springs, stiff dampers, and a big front bar. Probably a lot of discussion about it in the Suspension sticky.

You can certainly tailor the suspension (and the components that make it up) any which way. Some people see a sway bar(s) as a band-aid for a suboptimal setup. I see the 510's suspension as something needing a band-aid here and there, so...
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

User avatar
okayfine
Supporter
Posts: 14138
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:02
Location: Newbury Park, CA

Re: Whitebird

Post by okayfine » 09 Jan 2009 09:14

XeroX wrote:Up untill this point i was not even aware that they had a carburated Sr20de... :x :!:
Well, Nissan didn't.

But they're out there. I'm far, far from the first to have a carb'ed SR. Might be the first to carb an SR with SUs, though. I've seen an FJ with SUs...
XeroX wrote:Non-the-less. I really like the style your going for and im a HUGE fan of those rims :) well pretty much the whole car to be honest...
Thanks. If your rims were 14", I'd offer a trade. The Formula One rims I have may actually be rebranded Japanese Panasports, but I haven't really researched much about the company. They're in good condition and were cheap, but I may change them in the far future after everything's running.

I've got a hankerin' for some Watenabes.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

User avatar
XeroX
Posts: 374
Joined: 19 Oct 2008 04:23
Location: Sacramento, CA
Contact:

Re: Whitebird

Post by XeroX » 09 Jan 2009 09:28

okayfine wrote: Well, Nissan didn't.

But they're out there. I'm far, far from the first to have a carb'ed SR. Might be the first to carb an SR with SUs, though. I've seen an FJ with SUs...

Thanks. If your rims were 14", I'd offer a trade. The Formula One rims I have may actually be rebranded Japanese Panasports, but I haven't really researched much about the company. They're in good condition and were cheap, but I may change them in the far future after everything's running.

I've got a hankerin' for some Watenabes.
Hmm, i orignally thought that you had carbd the SR, considering you made the mani. urself. But then again i wasnt sure, i just did a little research and found some other folks that have done this, one in particular was to stay within racing requirements in the class they were in. It was actually a 510! saw it on zilvia.net.

Yea im trying to go with black center and polished lip 15s for my car, i think that would look the best. Best option for that right now are some XXR's the ones that look like watenabes 002s i think?

I just really like the way that they look with the gunmetalish look on the white paint.
I dont drink and drive, i SMOKE and FLY!

Post Reply