1972 510 2dr --STRESS RELIEF--

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Byron510
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Re: 1972 510 2dr --STRESS RELIEF--

Post by Byron510 » 02 Dec 2010 22:50

proflex wrote:
The main question I’m asking is what would be the best way to connect this made up piece to the ¼ panel. I’m thinking probably B or C in my pic. A would be easier to do though.
The Bronze was done in the 70's, and it uses some of the method outlined in the original How to Hot Rod and Race Handbook, and some gas welding. In my case, panels were made up for my car just as Matt did on his - strait out to the 1/4 panel from the center seam on the wheel well. In my case, the inside was bonded and pop riveted in; then gas welded on to the 1/4 panel.
When I took off all the old body work, well you can imagine what effect the gas welding had on a nice large, thin panel! It was not pretty. I hammered out quite a bit more than was done in its original inception, but it still took some fill, especially on my driver’s side (I think they did this one first as the pass side was a lot better).

With the magic bonding agents out there today, I sure would lean on the use of the glue. I actually glued on the rockers onto the Bronze in my restoration, and no side what so ever of any failure in the boding and it’s been 6 years now. And you’d think with the hellish stiff spring rates we use, if it was going to let go, it would have done so by now! I bought the $60 application gun and used the structural Proform stuff available at Lordco.

Here's a dusty construction photo from my build all those years ago. You can clearly see the filler panel was tucked under the seam, than pop riveted into place. The rivets you see on the fenders are the ones securing the flares - those are the original rivets use in 1971 - I never removed the flares themselves as the bond showed no sign of failure so it must have been well done in the first place. This car has been flared with this installation since 1971!
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bertvorgon
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Re: 1972 510 2dr --STRESS RELIEF--

Post by bertvorgon » 03 Dec 2010 09:10

here are some pictures from my car, which now has had those flares on there since 1984
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size of blended in flare.JPG
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pop rivets for rear flare.JPG
pop rivets for rear flare.JPG (76.56 KiB) Viewed 2456 times
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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bertvorgon
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Re: 1972 510 2dr --STRESS RELIEF--

Post by bertvorgon » 03 Dec 2010 09:13

more
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you can see the spot welds to the right where the metal joins in.JPG
you can see the spot welds to the right where the metal joins in.JPG (59.4 KiB) Viewed 2455 times
IMG_2319.JPG
IMG_2319.JPG (80.92 KiB) Viewed 2455 times
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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proflex
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Re: 1972 510 2dr --STRESS RELIEF--

Post by proflex » 03 Dec 2010 22:24

Thanks Byron and Keith, that’s exactly what I needed. I’m now thinking that I will make the panels come straight out from the center seam and connect to the ¼ panel at the same level as Keith’s panel is in the one pic. = just below the body line on the ¼ panel. It will have a 90 degree / 10mm bent lip put on it where it connects to the ¼ panel, giving me some surface area for the glue and something to clamp to. I’m going to give this glue a try and see how things turn out.
I cannot tell from your pictures how far your outer ¼ panels drops down below, if any, the made up inner fender panel. After checking for tire clearance the other night I’m thinking of cutting my wheel opening to 15 or 20mm below the body line, this will allow me to keep my flares below the body line and give me just enough area to connect the flares too the panel. I’m hoping this will be enough. :?:

Note ------- I checked tire clearance at full drop, bump stop removed, 7 inch wide 0 offset rim with a ½ inch wheel spacer, and measured out to where a 205 width 24 inch diameter wheel would be. I factored in a ½ inch more room for a proper camber setting and gave myself a safety of one inch by measuring for a 24 inch diameter wheel.---- A 23 inch diameter wheel is the tallest I would ever use. I would like to maybe be able to go up to a 215 / 225 x15 wide tire but there are not many tire in this size range unless you go into the 16s.

I will maybe start on these pieces this weekend as well as drop by Napa and check out the body adhesive. Thanks again for everyones help. I didn't want to mess this up like I did on my first 510 back in the 80s, makes me laugh just thinking about it. :roll: :lol:


Chad
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bertvorgon
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Re: 1972 510 2dr --STRESS RELIEF--

Post by bertvorgon » 04 Dec 2010 08:35

For a whole bunch of reasons, a 23" tall tire is the max I would/can run. This is with a 3/4" spacer, which takes the tire right out to the fender, with proper camber of course. I can run a 1" spacer with 13" race slicks, and 21" tall.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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proflex
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Re: 1972 510 2dr --STRESS RELIEF--

Post by proflex » 05 Dec 2010 16:56

23s are the largest I will ever use as well Keith. How much of a gearing difference do you notice between the 21s and the 23s?
Trimmed out the wheel wells and inner fenders some more yesterday {and part of one finger :x :roll: } and then cleaned up some of the trunk parts I had made earlier. I will need to pick up some more sheet metal before tackling the inner fender panels, so they will have to wait until next week.

Chad
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Inside trunk side panels
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Battery box
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defdes
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Re: 1972 510 2dr --STRESS RELIEF--

Post by defdes » 05 Dec 2010 19:45

bertvorgon wrote:For a whole bunch of reasons, a 23" tall tire is the max I would/can run. This is with a 3/4" spacer, which takes the tire right out to the fender, with proper camber of course. I can run a 1" spacer with 13" race slicks, and 21" tall.
Are you staggering, or running 1" both front and back with those slicks?

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Re: 1972 510 2dr --STRESS RELIEF--

Post by bertvorgon » 05 Dec 2010 20:34

Oh Hell yah, there is a difference in gearing. For the Canadian National slalom championship, in 1991, I ran 20" tall tires, for the acceleration, Heh, Heh. The 21" to 23" is huge also. I have 21" Yoko's on my 13" rims right now.

John, I ran the 1" on the back, and likely about 3/4" total on the front. I of course need a base spacer, to clear the brake caliper, then push out from there, depending on what subtle handling/front track change I wanted.
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13 inch X 7 inch Panasports.JPG
21" and a bit tall 032's on 8" wide rear Panasport
13 inch X 7 inch Panasports.JPG (156.08 KiB) Viewed 2347 times
IMG_4362.JPG
additional spacer the increase front track
IMG_4362.JPG (115.26 KiB) Viewed 2347 times
drilled spacer.JPG
base caliper clearance spacer
drilled spacer.JPG (113.69 KiB) Viewed 2347 times
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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Re: 1972 510 2dr --STRESS RELIEF--

Post by proflex » 02 Jan 2011 22:39

I hope everyone had a good holiday season. I spent some of mine working on the rear wheel wells. Thanks to everyone’s advice I think they turned out ok.
{You guys can skip to the pics if you like as some of this may seem a little boring.}
Here are some of the things I got done this week =
- trimmed some more metal out of the wheel openings, wheel wells, and the inner braces.
- I left on ¾ of an inch of the old inner fender well. Put a small cut in it near the top, running toward the middle seam. -This allows it to be bent out and up a little so it can be pointed straight out toward the ¼ panel.
- a little extra length was left on the inner factory braces so some tabs could be cut out and then bent up to help support the new panels.
-made up some patterns out of an old Cheerio’s box and then cut out some new panels. Small 1cm tabs were cut into the one side of the panels and then bent over to make up some surface area for the panel adhesive to glue to. I test mounted the panels about a 100 times :roll: , adjusted the panels and then mounted them in with some temporary screws. I then spot welded all the side tabs to each other to make the panel hold its shape.
-disassembled everything, sanded, clean, etc... etc... yada yada yada..... reinstalled the panels and welded them into the inner fender wells and upper braces.
-----The last part of the job was something new to me. Panel adhesive. The stuff I used was Evercoat Maxim medium set {100813} from Napa {$50}. The nice thing about this new stuff is that the two part mixture comes separated inside of only one tube which fits into a standard caulking gun. The special tip it comes with mixes the two parts together as they come out of the tube. No need for a special caulking gun.
-so lastly I fine tuned all of the small outer tabs on the new inner panels just a little to make the ¼ panel nice and straight and sit in the location I wanted . Heated up the garage to a higher temperature, cleaned the gluing surface one last time, pulled out the ¼ panel about a ¼ inch and applied the adhesive, and then clamped everything down. After everything was checked over and looked good I cleared out of the area because the fumes from this stuff are supposedly not too good for your health.
This adhesive worked great, the next day after the fumes had cleared I checked the ¼ panels and everything seemed very solid. I’m planning on using the last of it to install the remaining two trunk panels.
A little mixture of old and new school ideas seemed to work out good on this one. Anyways thanks again for everyone’s help. :)


Chad
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Wheel well panels and some panel adhesive from Napa
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IMG_1583.JPG
I think I may need just one more........... LOL
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Bottom of inner fender .....its not much fun welding upside down
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Re: 1972 510 2dr --STRESS RELIEF--

Post by proflex » 02 Jan 2011 22:51

more :)
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IMG_1624.JPG
Inner fender... still needs to be cleaned up a little....welds cleaned up , seam sealer etc...
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IMG_1587.JPG
Inner fender and top brace
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Byron510
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Re: 1972 510 2dr --STRESS RELIEF--

Post by Byron510 » 02 Jan 2011 22:58

Nice work Chad!
When I worked using the bonding agent on the Bronze some 7 years back - I was really apprehensive myself. But it has worked, and the benefits of not using heat make a much more controllable environment to work with and not worry about panel warpage. It's nice that there is a product using a standard gun. I'll assume that the product I used needed a special gun because the two parts were quite thick. The Proform system I used also had the mixing tips, and it works great.

Keep the progress photos coming; I've had a 510 working holiday this Christmas as well.

Byron
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proflex
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Re: 1972 510 2dr --STRESS RELIEF--

Post by proflex » 02 Jan 2011 23:14

Byron510 wrote:I'll assume that the product I used needed a special gun because the two parts were quite thick.
Thanks Byron, this new stuff I used from Napa was a little hard to get out of the tube as well. You should almost have a HD caulking gun to work with this adhesive, or at least a spare just in case you break one.

Chad
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Re: 1972 510 2dr --STRESS RELIEF--

Post by proflex » 02 Feb 2011 22:10

Some more progress on the car this month. Removed all the suspension and raised the car onto some higher stands to start the big job of removing all the undercoating. I’m happy that so far only some smaller areas will need to be sandblasted under the car to remove some surface rust that was hiding under the undercoat. While working under the car I started to wonder what this part was for on the frame rails under the driver and passenger floor.{see pic} It seems to have no purpose. Maybe it’s a mounting location for the assembly line? Just curious as to why the factory put it there. Do you guys with low cars ever hit this part of your car going over speed bumps etc... ? My car is going to be low so I was thinking maybe I should remove it.
Some of the cleaner suspension parts that I have been gathering will be going off to the sandblaster next week. I’ve also picked up my MR2 inserts and ordered some tires. I wanted to check the tire clearance/spacing in the front so the front flares could be mounted in the proper location but I was finding it too hard to mock things up without having some of these parts. I’m hoping to pick up the tires this Saturday.
I made up the inner fender sill end panels and predrilled the holes that I will be using to insert my homemade rust proofing wand. I’m going to paint the inside of the sills some more and then glue these panels and the two last trunk panels into place. After the car is painted absolutely every frame cavity will then be rust proofed with Napa’s inner panel rust proofing spray. I have used this product on other cars and it works great. It covers and penetrates right into all the body seams, preventing and stopping any of the leftover rust in areas that you cannot get to with the sandblaster, sealers and paints.
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IMG_1763.jpg
What is this part for on the bottom of the car? And should it be removed on a low 510?
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IMG_1772.JPG
One of the last panels needed to finish off the sheet metal on the car. Inspection and rust proofing hole predrilled.
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Re: 1972 510 2dr --STRESS RELIEF--

Post by proflex » 05 Feb 2011 16:43

:D Picked up my R-S3 street tires today {225/45ZR15 22.9 inchs tall} along with some 15x8 - 0 offset rims. The rims will get me by for now and will allow me to finally check all my measurements and clearances on the suspension, wheels, flares, etc... I’m running out of space in the garage to work with all this mess in the way so I’m going to spend some time today cleaning up and moving it into storage for now.
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Re: 1972 510 2dr --STRESS RELIEF--

Post by proflex » 10 Feb 2011 22:00

Another side project is almost done. I just need to run the main power and starter wires, make a small insulator panel for the back of the main power switch, and pick up a 51R Optima yellow top battery at Lordco’s trade show this spring.
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IMG_1885.JPG
trunk power supply panel [ford starter solenoid on the back side] ,battery hold-down
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