Chris' 72 Project

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Byron510
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Re: Chris' 72 Project

Postby Byron510 » 15 Apr 2010 23:44

heirfaus wrote:I hate dropping cash like that but with the abuse this will see I want to only buy it once!!
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I had the same thoughts when I returned the Chinese copy and bought the real thing myself.... 8)
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heirfaus
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Re: Chris' 72 Project

Postby heirfaus » 16 Apr 2010 13:50

Ok, I'm going to try and keep this linear, but I'm working on a few little projects on the car so I hope this thread doesn't get too crazy.

So is this right?! By my calculations using the ohms law diagram I figured that the running lights with the brake lights on, not counting the headlights, draws 8.78 amps. I was checking on this because I notice that with all my accessories on at idle when I put the brakes on my volt gauge drops. It seems to be just enough of a load to bog down the alternator at my low idle speed.

Here's the list I used
2 tale lights at 8.26 watts each
2 brake lights at 26.88 watts each
2 front lights at 8.26 watts each
4 side markers at 8 watts each

I used 13.5 volts in my calculations. Did I actually do this accurately?

I ordered up some LED 1156 and 1157 bulbs for dirt cheap from Hong Kong off of ebay. I need to get a VAT40 on this thing and check with the incandescent and the LED.

These are what I bought
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"An intercooler...has never been, nor should ever be, considered icing on the cake. A proper intercooler is more cake."
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hang_510
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Re: Chris' 72 Project

Postby hang_510 » 16 Apr 2010 14:21

heirfaus wrote: It seems to be just enough of a load to bog down the alternator at my low idle speed.


I need to get a VAT40 on this thing and check with the incandescent and the LED.

your alt may not be producing full voltage at low RPM's...
what does it do w/the HL on too?


LED's draw significantly less power!
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heirfaus
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Re: Chris' 72 Project

Postby heirfaus » 16 Apr 2010 14:34

hang_510 wrote:
heirfaus wrote: It seems to be just enough of a load to bog down the alternator at my low idle speed.
I need to get a VAT40 on this thing and check with the incandescent and the LED.

your alt may not be producing full voltage at low RPM's...
what does it do w/the HL on too?
LED's draw significantly less power!


So at 2000 RPM's ALL my accessories (except turn signals) are pulling just over 40 amps from my alternator at 14.4 volts. If I dump the throttle the alternator drops to 30amps so it is now drawing about 10 amps of juice off my battery and voltage drops from 14.4 to 12.8ish. Pulley on alternator is obviously too small. I figure I can either swap pulleys, or make the electrical more efficient. I figure the LED's should drop the running/brake light draw to maybe 2 amps?

Also keep in my this is an extreme load example. I don't normally sit at a red light with the all lights inc. HID and brake lights, heater on hi, 2 rad fans running, ECU, fuel pump, edis. But it does happen ever once in a while.
"An intercooler...has never been, nor should ever be, considered icing on the cake. A proper intercooler is more cake."
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thisismatt
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Re: Chris' 72 Project

Postby thisismatt » 16 Apr 2010 18:13

heirfaus wrote:So at 2000 RPM's ALL my accessories (except turn signals) are pulling just over 40 amps from my alternator at 14.4 volts. If I dump the throttle the alternator drops to 30amps so it is now drawing about 10 amps of juice off my battery and voltage drops from 14.4 to 12.8ish. Pulley on alternator is obviously too small. I figure I can either swap pulleys, or make the electrical more efficient.
You mean the pulley is too big, right? A smaller pulley would spin the alternator faster...
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Re: Chris' 72 Project

Postby heirfaus » 16 Apr 2010 18:47

thisismatt wrote:You mean the pulley is too big, right? A smaller pulley would spin the alternator faster...


I had the concept in my mind right, but the wrong words. Good catch :wink:
"An intercooler...has never been, nor should ever be, considered icing on the cake. A proper intercooler is more cake."
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Re: Chris' 72 Project

Postby bertvorgon » 16 Apr 2010 18:58

I tried some 1157 LED bulbs in my 510, but, I found then too dull, they are still sitting on my shelf at work....

If you put on a SMALLER pulley, the rpm will go UP on the alternator, which becomes a problem at high to higher engine speeds. We used to either explode alternators, or the speed would kill the diode packs in there.

A LARGER pulley slows the alternator DOWN, which makes the voltage drop at idle marginal for things, but, as soon as the rpm picks up, it is just fine, and of course 8,000 motor RPM keeps the alternator at a survival speed.
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Re: Chris' 72 Project

Postby heirfaus » 21 Apr 2010 21:44

Ok guys, So my wastegate finally got here. Check that off the list. Next thing I want to sort out is the oil and water piping. A couple of questions:

For the supply, I just want to T off the oil pressure sender right? and run a steel braided line around the block to the turbo? Do I need to worry about any sharp angles or anything?

For the drain, what size fitting and hose size should I use? And what angles are important to keep in mind? OH!! Does the drain fitting need to be high or low on the oil pan? Does it matter?

Last question. The turbo AND wastegate has fittings for coolant lines. Does it matter if the water goes to the turbo first and then the wastegate or vice versa? And can the water supply for them come from T-stat housing and then where? to the fitting that originally had the metal line to the carb?

I need to figure this stuff out so I can order the correct parts :D
"An intercooler...has never been, nor should ever be, considered icing on the cake. A proper intercooler is more cake."
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Re: Chris' 72 Project

Postby 510rob » 21 Apr 2010 23:04

there are no water fittings on the wastegate - those are air fittings. there should be a little slip of paper with the wastegate that shows how tial intended them to be plumbed into your system. <-- MY ERROR - RF

the turbo's water in & out could be plumbed into the t-stat housing, and say the lower rad hose fitting on the other side (effectively providing some bypass coolant around the water pump - or is there general evidence against doing this?

the oil in & out should be oriented within 15° of vertical. Tee an oil feed into the block at the warning light sender port (it's 1/8-BSPT, not 1/8-NPT), and make the return as big as you can, and place it as high as you can. I used -12 for my oil return, James used -10 for his oil return which has worked fine for him in all conditions.

http://www.atpturbo.com has a lot of water fittings & banjos for your purpose.

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Re: Chris' 72 Project

Postby heirfaus » 21 Apr 2010 23:58

510rob wrote:there are no water fittings on the wastegate - those are air fittings. there should be a little slip of paper with the wastegate that shows how tial intended them to be plumbed into your system.



hmmm... :?

This thing has a total of 7 ports
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See how this one is clearly labeled air

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Now, what does this one say? there are 5 total holes around the circumference of the blue section and another two on the top. As far as the 5 on the circumference. 3 came out of the box with no fittings installed and all three of them say "air" then there is two that had fittings installed and they clearly say something else. The first digit is definetly H and I think it says H2O
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"An intercooler...has never been, nor should ever be, considered icing on the cake. A proper intercooler is more cake."
Corky Bell, Maximum Boost

"one of the little things that add up"
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Re: Chris' 72 Project

Postby 510rob » 22 Apr 2010 11:05

"look, man, I've got certain information, all right? Certain things have come to light. And, you know, has it ever occurred to you, that, instead of, uh, you know, running around, uh, uh, blaming me, you know, given the nature of all this new shit, you know, I-I-I-I... this could be a-a-a-a lot more, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, complex, I mean, it's not just, it might not be just such a simple... uh, you know? " - The dude. (can't resist a good dude quote)

'http://www.tialsport.com/NewHotness.html' wrote:MV-S V2.0
Water Cooled, Re-designed Top, Same Price.

Available now in limited colors, this revamp features water cooling ports (patent pending) three bottom air ports and two top air ports. Water ports are not required for operation, but come in handy if you are road racing, the top hat is close to the turbine housing/down pipe or you have an engine bay that doesn't get a lot of airflow. Air and Water ports are clearly marked so there is no confusion.


Chris, sorry about the confusion caused by my error. From what the Tial website says about that new version with water ports, you are not required to run the water cooling feature, but if you've got the room for it, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to utilize the new advanced H2O cool-osity...

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Re: Chris' 72 Project

Postby heirfaus » 22 Apr 2010 12:06

Well, as soon as I get my manifold back from Jesusno2 I'm going to start tinkering with the wastegate placement. My thought it that it will be in a tight space between the block and the turbo near the turbine. So I'm thinking that the added protection of the h2o circuit might be nice. I'm also thinking that the line should go through the wastegate and then the turbo right?

Also, do I need one of these? Or should I just use full oil line pressure?

Image

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mv ... e=ATP-OIL1
"An intercooler...has never been, nor should ever be, considered icing on the cake. A proper intercooler is more cake."
Corky Bell, Maximum Boost

"one of the little things that add up"
-defdes

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Re: Chris' 72 Project

Postby heirfaus » 23 Apr 2010 00:35

Ok so lets side step back to the LED's. I got one today. It's the rear tail/brake light. My camera phone with the short shutter time shows the LED one brighter. My real camera with the long shutter time shoes the incandescent brighter. Either way the LED is bright enough for me and much less power consumption.
Cell phone pic. LED on left.
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Camera pic. LED on left.
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"An intercooler...has never been, nor should ever be, considered icing on the cake. A proper intercooler is more cake."
Corky Bell, Maximum Boost

"one of the little things that add up"
-defdes

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Re: Chris' 72 Project

Postby thisismatt » 23 Apr 2010 07:08

Which one looks brighter to your eyes? The LED looking brighter on the phone might be due to a lack of infrared filtering on your cell phone camera sensor.
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Re: Chris' 72 Project

Postby heirfaus » 23 Apr 2010 11:52

thisismatt wrote:Which one looks brighter to your eyes? The LED looking brighter on the phone might be due to a lack of infrared filtering on your cell phone camera sensor.


Well, I don't know all the technicalities of cameras and what they pick up, but I know that to me naked eye I can't really tell a difference in brightness. The only real difference is that the incandescent bulb emits light on all directions. The LED 's emit most of the light in a strait line and when installed in the brake lamp section of the tail light, well, the mounting is at a 45 degree angle. You can see the effect this has on the shape of the light in the second picture. I'm interested in seeing what the turn signal will look like as it mounts perpendicular to the lens.
"An intercooler...has never been, nor should ever be, considered icing on the cake. A proper intercooler is more cake."
Corky Bell, Maximum Boost

"one of the little things that add up"
-defdes


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