The Bronze - '69er Resto Project and continuing build-up.

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Danthewire
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Re: The Bronze - '69er Resto Project and continuing build-up.

Post by Danthewire » 19 Jun 2018 14:27

Yeah its pretty cool Byron. Its kinda neat for myself also, many of you may not know but way back in the late 70s my good friend Gary was the original owner of the car. I also had a 71-510 at the time, little did I know at the time where this would all lead too. My racing career, my friendship with Bob Stevens who ALWAYS went out of his way to mentor me. All the different people I met and tracks that I visited. All because of your car.

Its just so awesome to see how the car has progressed over the 45 years that I have known it.
When we talked last year at the show in Vancouver it floored me that those were still the original
fiberglass fenders that I had built 40 odd years ago.
(With a major fix up by you)
Like I said I'm glad you got recognized for the car.

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: The Bronze - '69er Resto Project and continuing build-up.

Post by funwithmonkeys » 19 Jun 2018 23:19

Byron510 wrote:
19 Jun 2018 11:46
Thanks for your feedback Norm.

So to confirm you are using Specialties 1100 lbs spring in the stock location with QA1 adjustable shocks or are you using coil over units with the QA1? Would you have a part number by chance on the adjustable shocks that worked for you? I’ll see if I can get some length specs for min/max and see if they’ll work for me.

Thanks Norm.
I have weight jackers with Eibach 2.5" diameter 6" long springs. The part number Robyn gave you for the shocks are the same as I am using. I have just a bit of preload on the springs at my ride height. Jegs has the shocks for about 170usd each. If you wanted one a bit longer they have lots to choose from. The adjustment goes from bouncy at the minimum to I can't move it at the maximum. That is on the single adjustable. If you want to get fancy you can get the double adjustable for double the price. With my springs out my suspension bottoms out before the shock does by about 2".
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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510wizard
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Re: The Bronze - '69er Resto Project and continuing build-up.

Post by 510wizard » 20 Jun 2018 07:25

Byron,
If you ever get to Vegas, stop by and see Peter's place, it has some great pictures from back in the day and stuff to purchase. Plus get him to give you a tour of the trailer plant, it's up your alley.

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Byron510
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Re: The Bronze - '69er Resto Project and continuing build-up.

Post by Byron510 » 16 Aug 2018 23:31

So the Bronze went through a bit of a retro grade this past week.
First up - there's very little time in my life at the moment - likely my own doing, but just the same. So I have had this head, which I bought from Hainz many years ago (for a good deal then, I might add - thanks Hainz if you’re still out there). At any rate, this was supposed to be the head that went on the Bronze with the EFI conversion in 2006/7. It never happened, the head ended up having the rockers and lash pads removed, bagged and tagged and well preserved in wax oil on all surfaces before being wrapped up and placed in a box in 2007... ‘til this past Monday.

The head was brought home, disassembled and assessed. There was funky shimming under the valve springs, the valve springs are not stock and are also unknown, the valve installed depth was all over the map (.040" variance), and the camshaft is still a complete mystery - other than I measure .483" lift at the valve, lobe measures .320" lift.
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So I measured the installed height of the valves, had a guy at the local Lordco machine shop determine the valve spring pressures both closed and open (118/256 lbs intake, 133/269 lbs Exhaust) and I then determined that the funky valve spring shimming was to compensate for the fact that the exhaust vales are installed deeper - which corresponded to the different thickness lash pads as well - so that all came together.
The intake and exhaust valves are new, upgraded to 44mm from the stock 42, stock 25mm on the exhaust - but brand not known. The guides have been sleeved and are quite snug on the valve. I lacked in the small hole gauges at home so I couldn't mic the difference between the vale and guides, but it's pretty snug, to that's good. The rockers had been resurfaced, and a ground finish at 90 degrees to the lobe operation was clearly visible. The rocker wipe pattern was perfectly centered on all rockers, so that was good. The head and manifold surfaces had both been planed, the head is missing .015" off its factory nominal thickness of 108mm, that's livable. I cc'd the chambers just for fun, they were 43-44 cc's.
So the head pretty much checked out good. I port matched a manifold, ground an intake gasket to fit, tapped out all the holes. I tossed the valve seals and installed new ones, and reassembled the head yesterday.

But I decided that I would not modify this head for EFI, instead making the decision to install the 44 Mikuni's which Chad borrowed and used for a couple years on his car. This meant that I would have to make a new throttle cable, and figure out fuel. So I port matched the manifold and made it ready to install (or so I thought)...
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Byron510
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Re: The Bronze - '69er Resto Project and continuing build-up.

Post by Byron510 » 16 Aug 2018 23:34

Turns out my Aeromotive fuel pressure reg will dial the pressure down to 1-4 psi in .5 psi increments without an issue at all. So I reconfigured the plumbing to/from the pump and T'd off a new 0-15 gauge and a dead end line to the carbs.
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To... This is what I came up with in the box of fittings I had in the shop - the end product nix'ed the heavy steel fittings on the right, and the hose into the left of the reg will become a SS line with nuts...when I have a moment to get it done.
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The throttle cable became the last "link" in the chain. I first called Jim at Overseas, as he'd always been able to supply me with the bits to do what I needed. Only it turns out, his suppliers dried up as well. Damn! I then whipped down to the local motor bike shop thinking I could buy bits to build a throttle cable - turns out they are just like most parts stores - "What year and model do you want a cable for?..." Apparently motor bike shops make any cables any more. So I hit a bicycle shop, found most of what I needed, but still didn't know how I was going to attach to the ball end on the Mikuni linage. The possible answer hit me while in the bike shop, and off to the hardware store I went to get some small generic cable crimps. This is what I came up with.
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So with this last bit completed, I tore into the car last night after dinner and stripped the top end off the car and started cleaning all the bits.
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Byron510
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Re: The Bronze - '69er Resto Project and continuing build-up.

Post by Byron510 » 16 Aug 2018 23:38

Today I scraped the block best I could, wire wheeled the bolts clean, tapped out the head bolt holes, polished the block deck again with scotchbrite and then cleaned with lacquer thinner until I didn't see a spec of colour on a white rag.
I still needed to modify the Z22 head gasket by punching the 8 water holes down the RH side of the block that match the water ports in the head, and I had to open up the large water passage hole in the back of the block to the head. The of course I had to trim off the front cover area of the gasket because the L is quite different that the Nap-Z. With this task done, I installed the head. This time I chose to use silicone all the way around the front cover. In every other build I've always utilized an L20B front gasket against the front cover. But my track record for oil leaks in the area has never been very good. So, this is the first time I fully silicone this area.

The carb manifold went on late this afternoon. I ended up grinding quite a bit off the sides of the Nissan Comp intake manifold to make it clear the Nissan Comp header I've been using - apparently these parts are not mix and match over the years. The comp manifold is of 70's vintage. The comp headers I bought new for some ridiculous price locally when I did the EFI conversion in 2006/7.
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The last project was the throttle cable installation on the car and by dinner time the car fired. I opted out of dinner at home, warmed up the car, sync'd the carbs (thanks to Glen as my uni-syn is MIA) and did a hot adjustment on the valves. Then drove the car tonight to the local street car show here in Maple Ridge, a once a year spin off of the weekly summer A&W Cruise Inn. It was literally a few blocks from my how - and the first test drive. Show turnout was good, but the Bronze isn't set in the jetting department. Fine at idle – horribly rich everywhere else….
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I kind of like this next shot - but you can see the new fuel press gauge I bought. It's quite reasonable at $45, with an $11 Russell fitting below it. makes for a clean, compact installation. I will replace the fuel 'IN' line and fittings (from the firewall entering the pres reg on the left) with one piece of SS tubing. I did buy the nuts and ferrules today - just ran out of time.
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The SDS ECU is still in place, being a very expensive fan switch… and ignition control unit. In the photo above I hid the EFI injector harness inside the electrical wrap in this photo, and wrapped up the manifold air temp and TB sensor plug behind the head fro safe keeping. While writing this I remembered I took the block vent and pushed it out the bottom by the transmission - I'll have to make sure it's tied up. This orange/red line used to go to a PCV on the EFI intake manifold from the block vent. I won't have a PCV with the IR carbs in place.

The EFI will go back on - with turbo I hope. But it'll be fun to remind myself why I put the EFI on in the first place. Or maybe that great Innovate A/F gauge will fix all the 'carb' issues I thought I had in the first place.... that jury is currently out.

I need to set the carbs up. I currently have 55 Pilots, and 200 airs with 145 mains in an 'OA' marked emulsion tube. At idle I can easily achieve 13-14:1 AFR, but as soon as I roll onto the throttle at any RPM and under any load, A/F drops to 10 or lower and the motor just bogs until you can get it to rev high enough to clear it's throat - but it's still not above 11:1 anywhere up to 6K RPM. So less fuel is in order. It's literally been years since I've played with Mikuni's. I've had Webbers in the middle, so I'll need to get re-acquainted with the numbering system. Apparently I've leant out my Mikuni book, as it's not on my shelf. The internet to the rescue I'm sure. In the meantime, I'll call around tomorrow to see if I can find some jets, and see what I have in my other set of Mikuni's as I have no collection of jets at all.

Byron
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because the opposite never works.

Three B's Racing
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Re: The Bronze - '69er Resto Project and continuing build-up.

Post by Three B's Racing » 17 Aug 2018 06:32

Nice write up Byron. Dave at Futofab has all the Mikuni pieces you'll ever need.
"Lastnight the wife said oh boy when your dead you can't take nothing with you but your soul oh "Think"
- John Lennon

Three B's Racing
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Re: The Bronze - '69er Resto Project and continuing build-up.

Post by Three B's Racing » 17 Aug 2018 06:55

One other thing!! I couldn't help notice from your pics that (and maybe its me) it looks like some of your lash pads are sitting dangeriousely high on the spring retainer. The Good book says "The lash-pad support area at the top-side of the retainer must be compatible with the thickness of the lash pad used. The lash pad should fit flush to 0.060 in above the top of the retainer and never be below the top of the retainer."
"Lastnight the wife said oh boy when your dead you can't take nothing with you but your soul oh "Think"
- John Lennon

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Byron510
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Re: The Bronze - '69er Resto Project and continuing build-up.

Post by Byron510 » 17 Aug 2018 07:26

Noted on the lash pads Lou. These are .210 intake and .240 exhaust, and I did compare the retainers to OEM and they are a bit deeper so I presume these are motorsport ones - but I can't confirm. I believe Motorsports had 6 different depths available, so maybe I need to track some down...if they are even available. And I wonder who'd be the best to track these down through. I'll try Specialty Engineering first as they used to have a direct line to Nissan, not sure how that sits today.

I know I've run .220" in the past without issue in OEM retainers - but as you mentioned it's not ideal. If extra clearance should somehow drop into the program, it could leave room to spit out the lash pad.

Byron
Love people and use things,
because the opposite never works.

510rob
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Re: The Bronze - '69er Resto Project and continuing build-up.

Post by 510rob » 17 Aug 2018 11:07

Baaaaaah!

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zKars
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Re: The Bronze - '69er Resto Project and continuing build-up.

Post by zKars » 17 Aug 2018 11:32

Byron, I have a supplier for 8mm ball end sockets. Midwestcontrolproducts.com. They have some great stuff. There 8mm ball and sockets have M5 threads unlike the stock M4 threads, but you still get to make your own small links with M5 threaded rod.

i've also successfully soldered Lokar throttle kit cable into the end of one their metal ball socket ends.

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icehouse
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Re: The Bronze - '69er Resto Project and continuing build-up.

Post by icehouse » 17 Aug 2018 11:33

510rob wrote:
17 Aug 2018 11:07
Baaaaaah!

x2!
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

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MikeY
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Re: The Bronze - '69er Resto Project and continuing build-up.

Post by MikeY » 17 Aug 2018 12:32

Byron,. I picked up a pair of 44mm mukuni's and intake last week. Also included was about 8 little boxes full of jets. I will bring what I have next week to the show.

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duke
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Re: The Bronze - '69er Resto Project and continuing build-up.

Post by duke » 17 Aug 2018 14:51

You might be amazed at how well you can get the carbs tuned with the wideband. It takes pretty much all the guessing and "black art" out of the tuning.
Duke Schimmer

'72 2-Door 510
"Simplify and add lightness."

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MikeY
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Re: The Bronze - '69er Resto Project and continuing build-up.

Post by MikeY » 17 Aug 2018 18:19

I'm hopeful my 2.3 lz is close enough that I can use what Byron uses for jetting for myself. I haven't dug into them too far as I am a bit over my head. But I saw 200 on something. Mine use ball and socket and rods like stock. I will probably get an idea of how to switch to cable at the show. This is good timing for me. I'm about to fire mine up with a pair of 240z su's as it was 10 years ago. But the 44's are pretty tempting.

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