Let's talk 280zx performance brake pad options

Suspension, including wheel, tire and brake.
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DADZSUN
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Let's talk 280zx performance brake pad options

Post by DADZSUN » 14 Feb 2020 07:20

So I'm in the process of giving my 510 a moderate update in the driveability department. ECU, brakes, seating, and various other bits are being addressed and documented in my thread.

I'm running a full 280zx setup with MBC and front and rear (newer) calipers with Porterfield R4-S pads front and rear. Tires are 195/60R14 Azenis RTK. Theoretically this should be a pretty rocking setup but it's seriously lacking. The plan is to add my P/U brake booster to get more oomph but I'd like to get different pads with more initial bite for my street/backroad/SoloII intentions. LOVED my Axxis Ultimates back in the day on my 350z for those who've tried.

Specifically I'm interested in any feedback for 280zx pads, unfortunately the selection is limited. Here's a list of what I found and am interested in thoughts:
  • Porterfield R4-S: My current setup and frankly very disappointed. Shockingly little initial bite, they almost feel glazed even though they were properly bedded.
  • Porterfield R4-1: "Developed using knowledge testing in the vintage racing community. Optimum uses for the R4-1, under conditions where very high friction is needed with minimal warm up time and in applications where there is difficulty in maintaining sufficient heat with conventional race pad compounds.". Based on the attache friction graph you can see that they should most definitely improve on the R4-S performance.
    Porterfield.jpg
    Porterfield.jpg (59.62 KiB) Viewed 228 times
  • Carbotech / G-Loc: apparently similar compounds from former workers who started their own biz (Carbotech->GLoc). I find this intriguing option and am at the point of trying to figure out if I want the R6 or R8.
    GLoc_Compound_guide_2016.gif
    GLoc_Compound_guide_2016.gif (21.19 KiB) Viewed 228 times
Any other options?
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project
'76 Datsun 620 - Future DD
Creativity outlet: www.datsunrestomods.com

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cartel
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Re: Let's talk 280zx performance brake pad options

Post by cartel » 14 Feb 2020 09:15

single piston zx calipers are never going to be "ideal" but you would want a pad with a lower initial heat requirement- or put some heat into the pads by dragging your left foot for a while - what master cylinder is in it?
Mike Gibson
Datsun: 71 dime; 73 Z ; GT3 240
Other: 65 + 67 Mustang ; 03 murcie

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DADZSUN
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Re: Let's talk 280zx performance brake pad options

Post by DADZSUN » 14 Feb 2020 10:14

cartel wrote:
14 Feb 2020 09:15
single piston zx calipers are never going to be "ideal" but you would want a pad with a lower initial heat requirement- or put some heat into the pads by dragging your left foot for a while - what master cylinder is in it?
The MBC is 15/16" 280zx OEM sized. I may upgrade to Wilwood 1" with the brake booster addition.

Agreed on the caliper, even more frustrating is that I'm certain the affordable Wilwood Dynalite caliper could be a simple bolt-on, perhaps with an offset to fit the the stock rotor, but I can't find a single site that offers just the bracket.

The last time I got pissed off about not finding the part I needed I did something about it. :lol:
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project
'76 Datsun 620 - Future DD
Creativity outlet: www.datsunrestomods.com

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Re: Let's talk 280zx performance brake pad options

Post by bertvorgon » 14 Feb 2020 11:25

In all my years of trying a ZILLION different pads, other than my road racing....I finally just went with the softest pad I could put into my Brakeman calipers. best thing I ever did.

You want a pad that has a huge coefficient of friction at the lowest temperature possible....IMHO.

Thinking I had this "race car" I had many variations of race pads I used on the street for solo and hillclimb. Just crap slowing at any speed till everything got up to temp, which really was not a reality at solo/hillclimbs or spirited drives. I had a close call once when I could NOT get any grip in an emergency situation and I went.... this is BS trying to run pads with high temp range.

Best thing I ever did some years ago was put in the softest pad I could get for my calipers....front and rear. Todays pads are still good for some serious stops at speed, and, in reality, Solo and other short type things really never get a rotor nor pad up to temp with harder pads.

We made a bracket to fit the aftermarket calipers on my car.

Our cars are light, which is a big bonus for stopping these things.

Show me for most of your driving...even solo..that you hit 1,000F and I will be surprised.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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Re: Let's talk 280zx performance brake pad options

Post by bertvorgon » 14 Feb 2020 11:55

You got me thinking about brakes....

With all the guys here, I cannot think of ANYONE ever saying they experienced brake fade on any of our drives or Solo. Road race sure, as Mission is a killer on brakes and you NEED brake cooling as a supplement.

Have that lineal grip right off the bat gives MAJOR confidence when the action ramps up. When you consider the speed of my car, Byron, James, Norm and a handful of other very fast 510's here, never a brake issue.

Some times, In reality, having these monster rotor and brake kits is kind of a downside/overkill unless actually using the car for true on the track road racing.

That has been my experience at any rate.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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Re: Let's talk 280zx performance brake pad options

Post by icehouse » 14 Feb 2020 12:12

I have the R4S on my car. They feel fine to me. They work good cold or hot. My brakes are stock so I'd like to upgrade at some point. I have ZX fronts and 240sx rears almost ready to go on.

Keith I had my fastest lap in our enduro car on metal to metal brakes on all 4 corners and didn't even know it. Maybe the whole weekend I was over slowing....


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Re: Let's talk 280zx performance brake pad options

Post by bertvorgon » 14 Feb 2020 12:38

That's funny...maybe I'm a wimp when it comes to braking....

i think you might need new rotors though....

I put that 2" extension on my brake pedal so the force required in my car is actually pretty low and I have GOOD brake bias to the rear also, which really helps and decreases the load on the fronts.

I understand the enduro thing as we encountered that once during a 7 hour Enduro at Westwood.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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Re: Let's talk 280zx performance brake pad options

Post by DADZSUN » 14 Feb 2020 12:57

icehouse wrote:
14 Feb 2020 12:12
Keith I had my fastest lap in our enduro car on metal to metal brakes on all 4 corners and didn't even know it. Maybe the whole weekend I was over slowing....
Image
LOL, that reminds me of the time I ended up welding the backplates of my front pads to the caliper's pistons on my RX-7 FD. They finally gave up on the backstretch of Shannonville - I wasn't initially worried as the runoff *seemed* like a flat field... at speed in a lowered sportscar proved otherwise. :shock: That off-road adventure tore my spoiler off and bent my front mount intercooler.

Surprised you like your R4S. I guess they perform consistently enough, I did some light lapping at Calabogie with them (w/ATE Super Blue) and they held up fine. I just don't get that initial bite nor the hard deceleration I'd expect from running ZX brakes on what is a lighter car.

Good points Keith, I think that's why the AutoX compounds do well.

I've emailed G-loc for their suggestion.
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project
'76 Datsun 620 - Future DD
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Re: Let's talk 280zx performance brake pad options

Post by bertvorgon » 14 Feb 2020 13:39

Thats what I did with BRAKEMAN....I actually phoned them and said: "Look, I have this quasi street/race car used for....what do you recommend for a pad that I need for cold grip..and I mean cold, with some good mid range stopping power?"

Some times these guys in California, or, wherever, do not realize that we have a much colder climate here..even in summer, and, 'have actual seasons.

Some of drives in October have had us going through the mountains with literally freezing temps!!!!

I have friends in California and they think it is cold when it hits the 60's. :lol:

In my case, his recommendation was spot on and I do not regret the choice at all.

I can remember trying to "drag" my brakes at Solo and before the hillclimb(s) to get some heat in, very hard to do if not enough room in the parking area, or pregrid.

One of our more funny stories was when we did a fall drive into the mountains, Byron, who has NO heater, was driving with his snow mitts on it was so cold in his car!
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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Re: Let's talk 280zx performance brake pad options

Post by cartel » 14 Feb 2020 17:03

i agree that i would try a close to stock ZX street pad-- theres no need for a booster IMO.. and larger master makes more effort -

don makes great looking parts and IMO theyre priced very well - i bring his stuff up all the time- im putting the new forged dynalite brakes on pumpkin this weekend as the custom one off "big" brakes are going onto the Orange one..

ill post pics on the pumpkin page after i put them on- should be this weekend as its a 4 day off here with the kids professional day today and family day monday
Mike Gibson
Datsun: 71 dime; 73 Z ; GT3 240
Other: 65 + 67 Mustang ; 03 murcie

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Re: Let's talk 280zx performance brake pad options

Post by cartel » 14 Feb 2020 17:05

icehouse wrote:
14 Feb 2020 12:12

Keith I had my fastest lap in our enduro car on metal to metal brakes on all 4 corners and didn't even know it. Maybe the whole weekend I was over slowing....


Image
fastest lap as you had almost NO braking :D .. so you carried more speed thru all the corners
Mike Gibson
Datsun: 71 dime; 73 Z ; GT3 240
Other: 65 + 67 Mustang ; 03 murcie

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Re: Let's talk 280zx performance brake pad options

Post by datzenmike » 14 Feb 2020 19:34

A 15/16" without a booster is crazy. No wonder there's no bite. Definitely get a booster, they up to double your line pressure.... or half the effort, however you look at it. I have 15/16" with a stock booster in my 710 with Maxima struts and calipers. The pads are middle grade somethings from NAPA. I figured that I could always move up later but have no reason to. It stops just fine with no wear on the rotors.

In an emergency you simply don't have time to warm the pads up.

If you have drums on the back did you change the residual valve for the rears????? If not, swap the one from your stock 510 into the ZX master.

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Re: Let's talk 280zx performance brake pad options

Post by funwithmonkeys » 14 Feb 2020 20:01

I have never experienced brake fade on my car since Andy put on the wilwoods. I have tried but I have never been able to. I only have the 7/8" master in my car but I find it gives me really good control under braking. I can keep it just on the verge of lockup at will. I have the Wilwood compound A pads in there and they have huge bite from the first stop. They are messy but they work great.
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Re: Let's talk 280zx performance brake pad options

Post by DADZSUN » 17 Feb 2020 08:28

datzenmike wrote:
14 Feb 2020 19:34
A 15/16" without a booster is crazy. No wonder there's no bite. Definitely get a booster, they up to double your line pressure.... or half the effort, however you look at it.
You're absolutely right Mike, and frankly I should have done this ages ago considering I have a tested & functioning booster.

This will be my first, and most inexpensive, step to trying to get better braking performance.

I'll report back on this thread in a few months once the damn snow melts.
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project
'76 Datsun 620 - Future DD
Creativity outlet: www.datsunrestomods.com

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Re: Let's talk 280zx performance brake pad options

Post by datzenmike » 17 Feb 2020 15:54

Ottawa.... oh jesus. Well not grass cutting time yet but green, grape hyacinth, snow drops are sticking their leave up, one or two crocus, day lilies are up 6". By the ides of March things will be happening.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

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