The 510 Realm

Hi Realm,
I recently stated upgrading my 1972 4 door 510.Completely stock with 15" Swastika Z mags. Its my first upgrade so I am learning as I go.

I started with suspension and brakes upgrades in anticipation of a larger engine swap (ka24 or sr20 most likely)
From Technotoy Tuning I purchased a ZX front coilover Set with camber plates, 12.2" Wilwood big brake kit, adjustable LCAs, Adjustable TC rods, a Silvermine rear disc single piston brake set , 1" master cylinder, proportioning valve plus some other small stuff. Also added a Z hub set used from the Z shop.

Rear disc set bolted on nicely with no issues save that the ebrake fittings dont match up. No big deal really.

Front end has been causing troubles.
The Caliper on the brake isnt fitting the 15" Z mags so we are faced with either modding the mags and the piston or putting spacers on the hub. Kind of a bummer since the caliper is nice and new and the Z mags are basically mint and dont want to damage either.
The spacer works but then leaves my 6" rim and tire out past the fender well. I would prefer not to flare the fenders as it is a four door and also because its got decent paint and all metal. Not to mention I promised the guy I bought it from that I wouldnt cut it up (unless I had too....)

I put a similar post on Ratsun but no one seemed to have any suggestions, though lots of lectures about using such a large brake set. Realistically though most of the new upgrade stuff available is 4 piston front and I did want new components so....

Any ideas from the realm??

The best ideas I've got is ;

16" + offset rims which are a bit cost prohibitive and I would prefer the look of 15's. Also many of these will hit the caliper also.

Run the spacers and flare the fenders which I prefer not to get into for reasons already stated.

Swap the brakes out and put in some smaller brakes. this may be the best alternative and realistically a safer bet for the car.

Appreciate any feedback....

Wilwood Brakes


Original suspension and high ride height

Aside from that being A LOT of brake (and depending on how you use your car, it may be too much brake), when you say this:

Also added a Z hub set used from the Z shop.

What does that mean? Which "Z" hub are you running on your ZX struts?

I ask, because the easy fix for you might be swapping on Z31 hubs, as documented here:

DQ Volume 5 Issue 3 - Bigger Brakes, Wider Track - The 280ZX front brake upgrade is a great way to improve your 510’s stopping. A drawback is the loss of front track width, which can cause wheel to strut tube interference and necessitate the use of spacers and longer studs. We’ll show you how to improve on this set-up further and restore the front track width to almost stock.

The article is available at The 510 Archives.

I fit +21 offset 14" rims over four-pot calipers on 11" rotors. Let us know what your measurements are (what sort of spacer you need, etc.).

I run these wheels.
http://5xracing.com/i-1556396-team-dyna ... ;brand:329
5xracing.com used to offer them with any offset/bolt pattern you want. You may want to contact them to see if they still will. There is a bit of a wait but they are worth it. My car is sitting beside yours right now if you wanted to check the fitment I don't mind. I am running wilwood 4 pot calipers and 12.5' rotors. They fit nicely over mine.

post that pic of your car with the 17s

RMS wrote:post that pic of your car with the 17s

RMS has these also.

That car is clean, and I like the green. I have a Wilwood big brake kit that I got from DP racing that looks similar in size to yours. I have 15" Rota's (+20 I believe, I will have to check when I get home) and I had to put on about 15mm of spacers to clear the calipers. To get the front end as low as I would like to go with out crazy camber I am going to have to roll the fenders. I will try too get you more specifics and a photo of how the wheel currently sits later.

Grimlid, what are your ultimate goals with your car? Keeping the engine stock? If so, I wouldn't worry about trying to install those big brakes. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for improving our cars in the name of safety & performance but those brakes are currently way overkill for your setup. A great upgrade would be struts, brakes and 15/16 master cylinder from a 280ZX. Top of the strut would need to be brought inboard slightly cuz the hub angle is different (this can help the tires tuck in too). I've run this setup for years with stock rear brakes and it worked great.

Saw your car at the show - looks nice....way too nice to cut for flares - please don't!!

Here's a few pics of my current brake/strut setup with spacers and longer studs. Wheels are 15x8, 0 offset and YES they wouldn't clear the fenders.

James

Sorry for late replies been busy with house projects....
Thanks for the compliments James
I think you were parked right near me. We had the 2 matched paintjobs . Yours looks really nice also.
I agree the car should not be flared mostly due to it having basically never had rust (one quarter had a small cut and repair and about 6" on one floor pan) and it being a four door, the impossibility of doing it correctly is there. it only had 32000 miles on it when I got it.
The original plan was for a KA or SR swap with a 200hp (ish) range.
The ZX stuff was only about 10% more expensive than 510 stuff and according to Technotoy it was just bolt in. These were the main reasons for all the overkill on the braking and handling components. Swapping in a turbo 240 or skyline power plant seemed a bit mental without major upgrades to those areas.
Hind sight would indicate your choices are a little more down to earth even with a motor swap.
Alternately the Technotoy 510 stuff may have been a little more user friendly at install

At any rate .....
With help and hard work from Tyson and Doug at Big Time Motors the hurdles were eventually overcome. I wasnt able to witness much as I would have liked as I was working up north but basically-
Front brake clearance was achieved by trimming slightly the caliper and the inner front edge of the rims along with a 1/4" spacer.
Tire clearance was achieved with about a 2.5 camber. I will need to raise it up a bit until I get some different rims as it rubs when cornering
We had some additional issues with the inside rotor edge hitting the control arm which were solved by trimming the outer edge of the ball joint housing , this was approved by Technotoy with a Cad drawing emailed to me on what was approved to remove with this issue.

The rear brakes were very little trouble and bolted up well with only the smallest trim to the fender well needed for clearance.

Pics to follow as Photobucket down atm

I agree with Mcshagger and funwithmonkeys that the pos offset rims are a good sollution. Tyson recommended the same.
I got to check your Black 6 spokes in person at the shop while it was getting attention. They are sweet and show off the brakes nicely.
Sorry about the Ferry crisis you had that must have been traumatic.....

Thanks for following up with your install and providing the results. I too plan on doing a similar install (someday) but with the brake kit from silvermine. The only step holding me back at this point is the investment in correct wheels as i currently run 14" Libres....not big enough for the brakes. I noticed you had posted you are running 15x7s, but what is your current offset? When i contacted T3 a while back they suggested starting with a +12 to +15 offset but i cant remember width.

Thanks

Remember that not all 15" wheels will clear the brakes. Mine clear with lots of room to spare and my buddies 15's are not even close. They both have the same offset and are both 15x7

You can fit 11" Z31 rotors under 14" wheels, so it depends on how big is big.