Turbos and B210 boosters

Suspension, including wheel, tire and brake.
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jeffball610
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Turbos and B210 boosters

Post by jeffball610 » 16 Jul 2018 11:00

So I just picked up a B210 booster setup at Eagle Rock yesterday, and I want to be sure that I can run this with a turbo system. I've seen lots of guys running them, but I haven't seen any specifics about other elements needed on a turbo system. Do they require a one way valve of any kind so the booster doesn't see positive pressure? I highly doubt the stock unit has a built in valve of any kind. I'll also need to make some slight modifications so the bleed valves don't hit my manifold since the MC sits further into the engine bay, but that's another problem altogether.
1972 Datsun 510
7-bolt 4G63T, EVO 9 pistons & rods, Garrett GT3076R, "Flipped" Stock Intake Manifold, Toyota R154, Z31 R200 w/ CVs

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jeffball610
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Re: Turbos and B210 boosters

Post by jeffball610 » 19 Jul 2018 12:39

According to Baz, the answer is in fact "yes", a one way valve is required. I assumed this to be true, but no one ever talks about it. With the lack of responses on here, I also wonder if anyone knows about this. He stated that I could get one at the auto parts store and to try and get a metal unit. I haven't seen any of those, but will make sure I get one. Could I use a metal PCV valve? My motor comes with one on the valve cover and the thread pitch is perfect for the hold on the manifold I want to use. It might work "backward" from what I want, but it also might work :?

On a side note, are there any "block off plugs" for the bleed valves on a brake master cylinder? I assume the bleed valves are only there for initial setup and blocking them shouldn't cause any issues. I'll have clearance problems if I can't get a hold of something like this.

I had to remove these intrusions on my intake manifold.
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The brake booster moves the MC out about 6" from the stock location.
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I will likely remove the last bump on the intake manifold, but left it for now.
1972 Datsun 510
7-bolt 4G63T, EVO 9 pistons & rods, Garrett GT3076R, "Flipped" Stock Intake Manifold, Toyota R154, Z31 R200 w/ CVs

510rob
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Re: Turbos and B210 boosters

Post by 510rob » 19 Jul 2018 20:56

Me thinks that you are in uncharted territory. Lots of people have used a 210 booster, but probably not many have bothered to think about details like positive pressure on the brake booster under boost.

On the other hand, would sending positive pressure to the brake booster be a problem if you are not actually on the brake pedal? One would assume (in theory) that you are only on the brake pedal when you are also off the gas, ie off the boost. Sorry, thinking into the keyboard.

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Re: Turbos and B210 boosters

Post by Byron510 » 20 Jul 2018 06:29

Regarding blocking off the bleeder nipples, I recall on one of my cars that I did as you suggested - bleed the brakes and then I tightened the screw for the last time and I literally cut the bleeder off flush - cutting in the direction that would tighten the thread - just in case :-)
I believe I needed the clearance for air cleaners on a side draft set up.

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jeffball610
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Re: Turbos and B210 boosters

Post by jeffball610 » 20 Jul 2018 09:39

510rob wrote:
19 Jul 2018 20:56
Me thinks that you are in uncharted territory. Lots of people have used a 210 booster, but probably not many have bothered to think about details like positive pressure on the brake booster under boost.

On the other hand, would sending positive pressure to the brake booster be a problem if you are not actually on the brake pedal? One would assume (in theory) that you are only on the brake pedal when you are also off the gas, ie off the boost. Sorry, thinking into the keyboard.
Positive pressure entering the booster can blow out the diaphragm from what I understand. It has less to do with the brakes working, and more to do with how the booster works.

There's also a term called "brake boosting" when you are at speed and step lightly on the brakes while applying throttle to build boost while not increasing in speed. It's a bit like loading a converter on an automatic transmission on the line while drag racing. In the brake boosting scenario, you would in fact have positive pressure while using the brakes.
1972 Datsun 510
7-bolt 4G63T, EVO 9 pistons & rods, Garrett GT3076R, "Flipped" Stock Intake Manifold, Toyota R154, Z31 R200 w/ CVs

datzenmike
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Re: Turbos and B210 boosters

Post by datzenmike » 20 Jul 2018 19:38

All Datsuns with brake boosters have an in line, one way valve, between it and the intake vacuum supply. If working properly there is residual vacuum in the booster after the engine is shut off. This means that if your engine should quit while driving, there is still enough vacuum in the booster to use the brakes with. It would not be a good idea to pump the brakes as this would exhaust all the remaining vacuum and the pedal would become extremely stiff to push down on, but for a stop it would work just fine.

Holding the throttle down while applying the brakes is not advisable. The first pump would be ok but if the manifold vacuum is lower it won't replenish the lost vacuum in the booster property. Try it some time in a safe place and you'll find the pedal becomes much stiffer and the effort required to stop increases dramatically. There are not many times you would ever need brakes and simultaneously giving it the throttle.
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Re: Turbos and B210 boosters

Post by indy510 » 21 Jul 2018 16:52

some Z car masters have the bleeders on the other side

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Re: Turbos and B210 boosters

Post by datzenmike » 21 Jul 2018 19:17

Trucks do because there are no strut towers in the way. The z car strut is out of the way...

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Re: Turbos and B210 boosters

Post by Byron510 » 21 Jul 2018 21:42

Some 280 Z’s (Not ZX) have the 7/8 MC with boarders on the LH side as well. The ZX shown above might have them on the left side, depending on the manufacture. All ZX BMC are15/16, But he careful as the late ZX’s have a horizontal mounting pattern that won’t work with the 510 vertical mounting pattern. So check that you do get the correct orientation if you go ZX.
All Z’s (S30) have the vertical pattern the same as th 510’s.

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Re: Turbos and B210 boosters

Post by datzenmike » 22 Jul 2018 10:34

Build dates Sept '81 on are horizontal same as all the 15/16" Maxima ones.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

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