tire choices -- aggressive summer -VTO wheels - BS >>?

Suspension, including wheel, tire and brake.
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cartel
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tire choices -- aggressive summer -VTO wheels - BS >>?

Post by cartel » 23 Jan 2019 19:52

read thru Monkeys thread about the Ao48s and now trying the Nankang AR1.. I was considering R888s but have a friend who is using bridgestone RE71R's on his civic for track days and 2 of his friends use the same on their acuras for Time attack-

Costco Canada is selling 205 50 15 RE71 at $128 cdn per-- they wont mount on the car but can take the rims in for $15 ea.. im ready to order those as they say 5 days away.

I ordered VTO 8s today custom BS - ive tentatively set the order to 15 x 7 with 12mm fronts and 20mm rears- i can always space out from this point - can always go out cant go more in..

right now with ZX struts and 0 offset wheels there is about 1/2" space to the strut with the gecko coilovers in it- once i change to "normal" ZX struts with internal insert it will be more-
.. 12mm may be too much but can space out -

the rears with 0- with the car set so the wheel tucks- has 2.5-3 degrees camber- need at least 12mm to get it back to 1.5 degrees or so - and the wheels on it now are 195's. there is well over 1" of clearance to a-arm .. i just am not sure if 12mm would work on the rear with 205s and setting camber back a bit..

suggestions?

im buying from VTO direct as well so if anyone wants some let me know--
Mike Gibson
Datsun: 71 dime; 73 Z ; GT3 240
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icehouse
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Re: tire choices -- aggressive summer -VTO wheels - BS >>?

Post by icehouse » 24 Jan 2019 08:45

I like the R888r the best out of everything I've tired. Although I want to try the RE71r's they were out of stock last time I ordered tires. We run the Rivals on our enduro car with also feel nice. Way better then the Z3's. I just like how stiff the R888r sidewall is and they are pretty cheap. I daily with mine, it amazes me how long they last and how many heat cycles they can take before loosing grip. The R888's aren't that good compared to the newest R888r which heat up faster and have better feel and grip.
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Re: tire choices -- aggressive summer -VTO wheels - BS >>?

Post by bertvorgon » 24 Jan 2019 09:26

For what it is worth, I hated the R888's, way too flexy sidewall unless you got up into the high 30's or low 40's for tire pressure, which my suspension setup did not like at all. The rear of the car just was a nightmare, changing from some thing that was ROCK SOLID. Norm ( Monkeys) had the same experience. He also has stated that the Nankings are doing as good a job as the 048's.

Not sure how much of our threads you may have read, but, I trust Norm's assessment as he has been glued to my bumper on some very fast drives and his car is for the most part set up like mine.
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Re: tire choices -- aggressive summer -VTO wheels - BS >>?

Post by icehouse » 24 Jan 2019 12:39

Keith,

Maybe it's the different amount of power?? Although Norms L is probably putting down the same power as my SR. I don't have that issue at all. When is Byron going to set up another autox so we can see the difference on a time sheet. I mean they feel flexy compared the my local go-carts but not compared to any of the 200 tread wear tires I've tired :)
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Re: tire choices -- aggressive summer -VTO wheels - BS >>?

Post by bertvorgon » 24 Jan 2019 13:03

Don't know what to say..Norm expressed the SAME as I did, as have some others.

They made my car UN-DRIVABLE, simple as that. Norm and I would be close in terms of where we actually use the tire, and that is CARRYING speed through a corner, where it is NOT POWER...but cornering GRIP. That is where we both felt the tire did not meet our needs and really ruined our cars. On toss in, the rear just could not translate to a lineal feel of grip, but a wishy washy mess, taking away any confidence and with that came a steering correction, which then ruined the line, causing another retreat on steering input, catch, then more steering...just not what my car has been with running any and all of the Yoko line of street race tires...001R, 008R, 032R, and now the 048R's, all in medium compound.

To that point that I would try the Nankings just due to Norm's recommendation and the 048's are out of production. DAMN! I will get another good season out of these and then one more, they do last me three seasons, maybe 6,000 miles. I will try to rotate more.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

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1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
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cartel
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Re: tire choices -- aggressive summer -VTO wheels - BS >>?

Post by cartel » 24 Jan 2019 16:06

well there is likely going to be a group buy on the Nankangs come april-- i dont care if they only last one summer-- but if they cant get them before then i may have to get the REs from costco just so i can drive it.. i havent been able to find an actual distributor for those in western canada - if anyone finds that let me know as will try to buy direct instead of thru a regular tire dealer..
Mike Gibson
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Re: tire choices -- aggressive summer -VTO wheels - BS >>?

Post by icehouse » 24 Jan 2019 17:58

bertvorgon wrote:
24 Jan 2019 13:03
Don't know what to say..Norm expressed the SAME as I did, as have some others.

They made my car UN-DRIVABLE, simple as that. Norm and I would be close in terms of where we actually use the tire, and that is CARRYING speed through a corner, where it is NOT POWER...but cornering GRIP. That is where we both felt the tire did not meet our needs and really ruined our cars. On toss in, the rear just could not translate to a lineal feel of grip, but a wishy washy mess, taking away any confidence and with that came a steering correction, which then ruined the line, causing another retreat on steering input, catch, then more steering...just not what my car has been with running any and all of the Yoko line of street race tires...001R, 008R, 032R, and now the 048R's, all in medium compound.

To that point that I would try the Nankings just due to Norm's recommendation and the 048's are out of production. DAMN! I will get another good season out of these and then one more, they do last me three seasons, maybe 6,000 miles. I will try to rotate more.

I have changed my setup a bit over the years making the R888r's work even better, I can see switching to a harder tire not being fun. Out of all the tires I've listed they drive the best. I thought about trying your tires back when you could still find them. I just didn't pull the trigger for 3 reasons.

1. Price, they are twice the cost. If I was going to spend 1k I would buy Hoosiers A7's.

2. Why fall in love with something that is going to be gone next time I need them.

3. I daily my car, so at half the price I can burn them up and who cares. yeah I could get extra wheels but I'm really not that serious. haha

I'd go with the RE71's before the Nankings. The RE's heat up insainly fast. Since I autox that's whats most important. The Nankings and R888r's are track day tires. Nankings heat up way slower then the R888r's though. A few guys I race have tired them, there time suffered. The RE's were just out of stock when I bought my last tires and I do really good on the R's. Tires are all about what you plan on doing with your car. Since you've went to the dark side with ultra fancy, like anything performance in nature, you can't go backwards.
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

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icehouse
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Re: tire choices -- aggressive summer -VTO wheels - BS >>?

Post by icehouse » 24 Jan 2019 18:06

cartel wrote:
24 Jan 2019 16:06
well there is likely going to be a group buy on the Nankangs come april-- i dont care if they only last one summer-- but if they cant get them before then i may have to get the REs from costco just so i can drive it.. i havent been able to find an actual distributor for those in western canada - if anyone finds that let me know as will try to buy direct instead of thru a regular tire dealer..
If you aren't going to autox the R888r's will be hands down better then the RE71R which will overheat and fall off in grip over longer drives. That's why we ran the Rivals on our enduro car. They have a slight edge over the RE's when it comes to over heating. We had to stay with a 200 tread wear tire so we couldn't run the R888r's.

You won't be let down by any of the tread wear 200 tires or lower. insane grip.

I want to try the Nankangs but from what I've seen guys at my autox experience they don't do well for autoxing. They heat up very slow. Like the orignal R888s did. The new R888r heat up much faster (not RE fast) and work alright in the rain. I've won quite a few events in the rain with them. But my events shrink when it rains. I love rain days!!!!!


My thoughts after testing for a while.
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Re: tire choices -- aggressive summer -VTO wheels - BS >>?

Post by JordanTr » 24 Jan 2019 20:30

cartel wrote:
23 Jan 2019 19:52
right now with ZX struts and 0 offset wheels there is about 1/2" space to the strut with the gecko coilovers in it- once i change to "normal" ZX struts with internal insert it will be more-
.. 12mm may be too much but can space out -

the rears with 0- with the car set so the wheel tucks- has 2.5-3 degrees camber- need at least 12mm to get it back to 1.5 degrees or so - and the wheels on it now are 195's. there is well over 1" of clearance to a-arm .. i just am not sure if 12mm would work on the rear with 205s and setting camber back a bit..

suggestions?
I would say your fitment choice is bang on. Like you said, can always space them out. I'm at 16x8+30, 215/40R16 all around. Spaced to effective +15 at the back and +27 in the front (different strut setup) but it's tight to the strut.
With +20 in the back and a 205 tire, you can square up the camber pretty well with sufficient clearance at a reasonably low ride height.

As far as tires go, I've ran the 205/50/15 R888 deal (christened by Bert Vorgon) and found them quite spongey and soft as well. The car felt very rolley and never felt planted until I really pushed it. I've since gotten out of the 15" game and gone back to the old faithful 16. I'm concerned that I'll be heading back toward 15s due to tire choices since nothing but an S drive is available in a 215/40R16. 205/45R16 still has some reasonable tires but I would love some width out back. Currently percolating in the back of my head is a set of 15x7.5 or 8 +20 to +30 wheels with 205/50 and 225/45 BFG Rivals. This would fit the rolled guards and give some extra traction for forced induction! :twisted:
Jordan | '72 2 door KA project | '94 240sx RB26DETT | '97 Silvia RB25DET | '90 Audi 90 Quattro 20V (DD)

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Re: tire choices -- aggressive summer -VTO wheels - BS >>?

Post by cartel » 24 Jan 2019 21:59

like other decisions i flipped between tire size-- i was looking at 16's but the choice in tires is no where near as good at 15 or 17.

i am going down to 17s on my Z ,(from 18s) and i saw the white 510 Spriso built with 17 x 8?s and 215s all around looked nice but will that extra rotating weight be noticeable? i would really rather have 215s but is it worth that extra weight?

there just are so many choices for 15" tires and im going to start with that size and see how it works out..

hmmm 225's - STOP it :-) i can get VTO in 8" with that offset- i just checked those tires are nice and short close to 23" overall-- but almost no one else makes 200 trearwear tire in that size- most are 40 race tires
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Re: tire choices -- aggressive summer -VTO wheels - BS >>?

Post by JordanTr » 25 Jan 2019 06:14

Jeff also noted last night that a 225/45 and 205/50 stagger on 15s is doable with the R888rs as well.

The 17s would likely be heavier and would certainly have more inertia. Probably not the most noticeable on the street but I would bet that lap times would show it.
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Re: tire choices -- aggressive summer -VTO wheels - BS >>?

Post by cartel » 25 Jan 2019 08:41

i dont know if i will ever make it to an autox.. -- this car is more for summer beat downs- and it will definitely go to the odd track day- the group of people around are all trying time attack and using the RE71s at this time- honda/acuras. i also know a bunch of people with Area27 memberships and i will make at least one trip there. but would need both cars there the SX and this.. but no stacker trailer to take 2..so which to pick (ah such a first world problem)

the reason i was looking at the RE71s is they all drive TO the track and then on the road course at mission-- i figured if they can do that it may be a good tire for the dime..

how do the BFG rivals do ? Obviously Norms driving the Nankang AR1 on the street and those are 80 treadwear- i know for the Z i was looking at some 100 treadwear NT01s or something close.
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Re: tire choices -- aggressive summer -VTO wheels - BS >>?

Post by Byron510 » 25 Jan 2019 10:08

It's good discussion, but having only run the Yoko's, I can't weigh in.

For the record, I install my R compounds and drive to Mission without much thought :-) But I think I'd carry them to Area 27, that's good hike.

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Re: tire choices -- aggressive summer -VTO wheels - BS >>?

Post by cartel » 25 Jan 2019 11:18

heard back from nankang and they actually have a rep in vancouver- and a distribution warehouse in AB. so it may not be that difficult to get brought in-- there is also a 120 treadwear NS2. havent looked into any reviews on them though..
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Re: tire choices -- aggressive summer -VTO wheels - BS >>?

Post by JasonLee » 25 Jan 2019 18:37

Who is the rep in Vancouver if you don't mind me asking? I am in the market for a set of AR1s anytime now, and would be nice to deal with a local source.
Jason

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