Bike carbs... WHA?!?

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zuum510
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Re: Bike carbs... WHA?!?

Post by zuum510 » 12 Dec 2008 12:38

too bad... :roll:
Last edited by zuum510 on 12 Dec 2008 15:32, edited 1 time in total.
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CorAce
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Re: Bike carbs... WHA?!?

Post by CorAce » 12 Dec 2008 12:46

I’m down with the SU’s, I had a set on my old dime. And loved them. Don’t think I haven’t been looking, so if you can find a good complete set for $200 or even $300 I’ll take them. I see the carbs out there all day long, but good luck finding the manifold and linkage assemble. And I don’t even know if it’s a different setup for my L20B as opposed to the stock L16.



Zuum-
I personally would like to hear more about your project. Get some miles on your setup and keep us informed on your observations. This is still a good alternative for me.

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510-Trevor
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Re: Bike carbs... WHA?!?

Post by 510-Trevor » 12 Dec 2008 12:52

Ya, okay thats fine (notice the play on words) if you live somewhere where you can find good SU's. They just don't exist out here, and buying from eBay is hit or miss. You'll have to buy a manifold one way or the other although with a little patiance I'm sure you could find a cheaper manifold for the SU's. Again, its not the price, but the availablitity.
All I'm saying is these are (if they actually work well) a good alternative if you (like me) live somewhere were SU's aren't available locally. Most towns have bike shops, and most of those will have someone who understands these carbs. I wouldn't be surpirsed to find that cycle guys have websites as well that could provide tuning info (not for a 510, but rather to show how the carb works).
Of course this means nothing if the carbs don't work well enough.

These types of finds excite me, I've noticed lately that finding parts for the Datsun is getting harder. I was looking at going with the 200sx rear brake swap, but good luck finding calipers and rotors. A good friend of mine manages the 2'nd biggest parts warehouse in Calgary, they haven't seen one since 2003 and no longer list a part in their system.

zuum510
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Re: Bike carbs... WHA?!?

Post by zuum510 » 12 Dec 2008 12:56

maybe this thread will just get deleted.
Last edited by zuum510 on 12 Dec 2008 15:33, edited 1 time in total.
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CorAce
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Re: Bike carbs... WHA?!?

Post by CorAce » 12 Dec 2008 13:03

I’ve seen some carbs go as big as 50mm. would you suggest a larger set for the L20B? Or are you happy with the 40’s?
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iceD
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Re: Bike carbs... WHA?!?

Post by iceD » 12 Dec 2008 13:07

Okay, I was thinking it was at the crank, 145 seems quite respectable. What do you have now? And why are you always hatin'?

ice D :!:

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510-Trevor
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Re: Bike carbs... WHA?!?

Post by 510-Trevor » 12 Dec 2008 13:07

I'm not sure what Tacoma is like for open track days (dragstrip) but in the Spring, it if you have the desire, you should take the car down there run it one day with the ITB's, the change over to the DGV and run another. Its not the best way to compare, but it should give some pretty good insight so long as the 2 days have pretty similar weather.
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okayfine
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Re: Bike carbs... WHA?!?

Post by okayfine » 12 Dec 2008 13:32

zuum510 wrote:FIRST I only have $275 int TOTAL into this "mini project", that includes; carbs, manifold, jets, hose, and clamps... I'd like to see you do the same with a set of SU's or DCOE type carbs and be able to BOLT THEM ON AND RUN!
eBay often has sets of SUs, complete, for $250. I don't need to tell you this. Swap meets often have sets for less, and you can inspect them before buying. In all the years of dealing with SUs, I've not seen a truely worthless set of 38mm SUs, though I'm sure they're out there. SUs for an L are a bolt-on, your setup wasn't and isn't.
zuum510 wrote:so this setup although in its infancy HAS LOADS of potential...
Do you even read what I write? I said the same thing, it has potential. But you seem to expect the "props" of "discovering" this new induction without actually doing anything at all to prove that it is better in any way, shape, or form.

I'm excited about it. That's why I want to see some proof there's something to actually be excited about.
zuum510 wrote:SU's and Webers have been around for ages so of course theres tons of info out there, so what? Why be a follower?
You're not the first to do this, ergo you're a follower already.
zuum510 wrote:Cause you said so?
Simmer down, chief. You're clearly not reading what I'm writing. Show the good people of the510realm what you've got is better than what you started with before you start giving yourself "props."
zuum510 wrote:No one I know does dyno days in the winter,
Yeah, shops just close up during winter. No one wants to make money from October 'til April. Gone fishin'.
zuum510 wrote:the closest "good" dyno with "real" tuning charges $60 just for a run... $150 with WB O2, and $40 for every run there after on the same session..
And just like every other dyno shop I've ever been to or heard of, I'm sure they give discounts for clubs. Find a club, ask to crash their party. I feel like I'm repeating myself here...
zuum510 wrote:so for the time and number of runs it would take just to tune these in NOT including running the 32/36 and tune that in, in order to get a TRUE objective number that you are looking for would cost QUITE a bit more than I have into the carbs... so then I should go out to a stretch of PUBLIC road to do the same JUST cause YOUR curious??? You have GOT to be kidding...
Your alternative is more of a joke. Slap some unknown carbs on there, call it good.

I'm not the only one who is curious. Everyone reading the thread is curious. Heck, if you AREN'T curious...why even bother in the first place?

And, no, I'm not kidding. You've already got the setup on your car, the LEAST you could do for the 510 community at large is to work out whether there's any real point to what you've done. I mean, again, if not...why bother?
zuum510 wrote: (speculation)... its quicker.
Well, sure. I mean, you just spent a couple hundred dollars on it all, it would HAVE to be quicker, wouldn't it? What version of the ButtDyno are you running?

My KA510 was down for two months while I fiddled with joining up the ITBs to the KA. After I got it running, I was damn sure it was quicker than stock, top-end felt stronger, damn skippy if the throttle response wasn't dramatically increased. Then one day over the course of five hours, I swapped the stock intake back on and took the car out for a drive. Huge increase in torque, no apprciable drop off in top-end or throttle response.

I've been there, done that. Subjective ButtDyno measurements don't mean anything.
zuum510 wrote:Vac port? DCOE's don't give you a vac port...
Wanna know why? Race only, where advacing the distributor under low-load conditions doesn't come into play, 'cause there are no low-load conditions.

Vac ports - pish-posh, who needs 'em?
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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okayfine
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Re: Bike carbs... WHA?!?

Post by okayfine » 12 Dec 2008 13:38

510-Trevor wrote:Ya, okay thats fine (notice the play on words) if you live somewhere where you can find good SU's. They just don't exist out here, and buying from eBay is hit or miss. You'll have to buy a manifold one way or the other although with a little patiance I'm sure you could find a cheaper manifold for the SU's. Again, its not the price, but the availablitity.
Like the Coupe taillights on eBay, stuff is getting more expensive. That doesn't mean it isn't out there. Local JY had a set of Z SUs the last time I was there, but I didn't see the point in getting them for the $60 they wanted to charge.

As to manifolds, have you called ZTherapy? They mostly deal with carb bodies, I bet they have some used 510 manifolds they'd let go for cheap. But that would be a guess.
510-Trevor wrote:All I'm saying is these are (if they actually work well) a good alternative if you (like me) live somewhere were SU's aren't available locally.
They'd be a decent alternative regardless. Which is why I'd really like to know some hard numbers about 'em. And, obviously I'm not the only one, which makes it all the more frustrating that someone HAS this setup running and won't bother to do any of the work to prove them out.
510-Trevor wrote:These types of finds excite me, I've noticed lately that finding parts for the Datsun is getting harder. I was looking at going with the 200sx rear brake swap, but good luck finding calipers and rotors. A good friend of mine manages the 2'nd biggest parts warehouse in Calgary, they haven't seen one since 2003 and no longer list a part in their system.
Try finding aluminum rear drums.

That said, the rear brakes for a lot of Nissan's line are very similar. My donor 280ZX rear calipers were the same as my donor 240SX rear calipers, except for the bracket, which was interchangable. Took the same pad, even.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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okayfine
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Re: Bike carbs... WHA?!?

Post by okayfine » 12 Dec 2008 13:41

CorAce wrote:I’ve seen some carbs go as big as 50mm. would you suggest a larger set for the L20B? Or are you happy with the 40’s?
Constant-velocity carbs are different from stuff like DCOEs with regards to sizing. Still, Unless it was a hot L20B, you'd want to run 38mm SUs instead of the 46mm versions. The 2.4L KA liked 42mm throttles better than it liked 46mm throttles, so I can't imagine an L20B doing anything with 50mm carbs, except fouling plugs. The KA probably would have liked the 38mm GSX-R 600 ITBs even better.

Bigger is usually not better when it comes to carbs. It's all gotta be part of the system.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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okayfine
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Re: Bike carbs... WHA?!?

Post by okayfine » 12 Dec 2008 13:51

iceD wrote:Okay, I was thinking it was at the crank, 145 seems quite respectable. What do you have now? And why are you always hatin'?

ice D :!:
Engine dynos measure at the crank. Chassis dynos measure at the wheels.

I don't have anything ATM, but I'm working on an SU SR. And it'll go to the dyno.

Who's hatin'? How am I hatin' for wanting proof something is a worthwhile modification? If you're going to post here about this or that being the business, I'd like you to have something to back that up.

Maybe it's just me. Maybe I can get my lawnmower carb to run my SR. I can post a picture of it and say this the bombdizzle.

Or, I could put my money where my mouth was. Like I did for the EFI ITBs. EFI ITBs didn't have any positives from a performance aspect, and I said as much, with proof. I'm sure a lot of people thought they were cool, but by my putting the hard numbers down as proof, it saved a lot of people a lot of time and money.

Isn't THAT what the 510 community is supposed to be about? :?:
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

CorAce
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Re: Bike carbs... WHA?!?

Post by CorAce » 12 Dec 2008 13:59

Are the 38mm SU’s the most common? Most of the ads I see don’t specify size in MM. I know the Zcar SU’s are diferant from the SSS set. And will that have any impact on the manifold you use?
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Re: Bike carbs... WHA?!?

Post by rnorrish » 12 Dec 2008 14:03

okayfine wrote: Isn't THAT what the 510 community is supposed to be about? :?:
non-sense. :P
owning a 510 is all about reading your write-up about the ITBs, but then still doing it so as to be different. and trying to do it for less money than you.
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zuum510
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Re: Bike carbs... WHA?!?

Post by zuum510 » 12 Dec 2008 14:16

is it gone yet?
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Re: Bike carbs... WHA?!?

Post by okayfine » 12 Dec 2008 14:28

rnorrish wrote:but then still doing it so as to be different. and trying to do it for less money than you.
I double-dog dare you. :twisted:
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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