Rheis' 72 4door

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Rheis
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Re: Rheis' 72 4door

Post by Rheis » 21 Jan 2010 10:05

cylinders in order of front to back
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DSC00135.JPG

Rheis
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Re: Rheis' 72 4door

Post by Rheis » 21 Jan 2010 10:11

so I was wondering if carbon at the top can damage the pistons when removing could some of this rust have?
DSC00139.JPG
also I accidently dropped this one it slid out of the front cylinder so fast :!: probably because that one is super smooth and clean .. anyways it fell a foot and a half onto my oil pan then onto a sheet of cardboard with plywood underneath all I could see was this little dent on top but I guess its ok
DSC00147.JPG

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okayfine
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Re: Rheis' 72 4door

Post by okayfine » 21 Jan 2010 10:28

That water pump is toast, and I'd look for a new front timing cover as it'll be easier than attempting to clean the corroded one.

The piston bores will not really show correctly in photographs - that last one looks like it has some serious vertical scoring, but could just be rust residue from removing the piston. Might clean up with a hone, might need to be bored the next size up. The nick in the piston won't matter, I created a much bigger nick in the ring land attempting to pull off my first set of old piston rings, was advised it was no big deal, and the engine ran fine the next five years I had it and sold it.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

Rheis
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Re: Rheis' 72 4door

Post by Rheis » 21 Jan 2010 10:53

okayfine wrote:That water pump is toast, and I'd look for a new front timing cover as it'll be easier than attempting to clean the corroded one.

The piston bores will not really show correctly in photographs - that last one looks like it has some serious vertical scoring, but could just be rust residue from removing the piston. Might clean up with a hone, might need to be bored the next size up. The nick in the piston won't matter, I created a much bigger nick in the ring land attempting to pull off my first set of old piston rings, was advised it was no big deal, and the engine ran fine the next five years I had it and sold it.
ya I wasn't going to use the water pump... as far as the timing cover it looks like rust but it looks like smooth and caked on (kinda looks like dried grease and rust) hard to explain but either way I havent touched it so we will see might just scrub off

the last cylinder is similar in smoothness to the other ones (so your probably right about the pictures) but it does have a fair amount of rust that slightly catches my nail as I rub it

I hope I dont have to go to the next size up because its already bored over. There is apparently only about 2500 miles on it, then he blew the rings after cranking the boost to race a porche :lol: although I've shown Byron the pistons and there are some light marks on the tops (the guy had a z head on it which I didnt buy, I bought the L head that was on it for like a hour or two) so Byron thinks he didn't blow the rings and bent some valves on the head

good to know I was kinda worried that the dent was somewhat close to the edge

thanks for the help

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hang_510
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Re: Rheis' 72 4door

Post by hang_510 » 21 Jan 2010 13:04

Rheis wrote:as far as the timing cover it looks like rust but it looks like smooth and caked on (kinda looks like dried grease and rust) hard to explain but either way I havent touched it so we will see might just scrub off


...then he blew the rings after cranking the boost to race a porche :lol:
the covers never seem to clean well, even corroded water pump rust :(


:lol: :lol: cant wait to see what my block looks like after similiar antics w/a BMW
byron wrote:I'd be all over that like a fat kid on a smartie.
okayfine wrote:Sense doesn't always have everything to do with it, and I speak from experience.

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Byron510
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Re: Rheis' 72 4door

Post by Byron510 » 21 Jan 2010 16:00

Yep, it appeared that a missed shift or over revving was the culprit as to why this motor suddenly lost power- all 4 slugs had been tagged by the valves (so throw those valves out, eh!).
After 10 years the specifics get fuzzy, and the war stories just get better :D
The rust in the bore looks too deep for good ring life; I think you'll be into new pistons or a different block.
Byron
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because the opposite never works.

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bertvorgon
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Re: Rheis' 72 4door

Post by bertvorgon » 21 Jan 2010 17:08

The key to any good turbo motor project is that the ring seal is perfect, and that the cylinders are round. I see that the block has been "O" ringed, which is a good thing, and if it can be rebored, make sure that it is done with a torque plate used, if you can.

Rheis,,,I also have you memory card from the OCTOBERFAST drive at work, so you could pick it up at the February meeting if you want. Matt and I used a good chunk of your footage along the Duffy Lake. We should have the DVD copies done for then also.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
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1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

Rheis
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Re: Rheis' 72 4door

Post by Rheis » 22 Jan 2010 13:32

oh no ... not stuff I want to hear :( I hope it will only need a hone .. when I took these pictures I was realy trying to show all the trouble spots full on so I get good opinions on the worst case scenario. So what shoud I do now? can I try to clean it with wd40 and like some light steel wool or a green scrubby first and see what happens? (it kinda looks like surface rust but then again I don't want to screw anything up) or should I bring it somewhere for a in person opinion? Either way I assume a hone should be tried and is probably best?

Keith, that sounds like a plan, I was planning on making the next meeting but you never know because I haven't made it to one yet :lol:

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defdes
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Re: Rheis' 72 4door

Post by defdes » 22 Jan 2010 15:05

You need AT LEAST a hone anyway, it's the only way that the rings could seat properly.

Rheis
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Re: Rheis' 72 4door

Post by Rheis » 23 Jan 2010 13:23

yesterday I reaized my brothers car was coming back from the mechanic so when he was coming by to drop it off I had him look at the block. Anyways he said its hard to tell but it might need a rebore :( He suggested to first buy a 3 stone medium hone and run it through the worst cylinder #4 at 200rpm maybe 10 times and see what happens. I hope it works. He said I can't realy screw it up with the hone unless I do it for a long time .. any tips on honing besides lubricant? the mechanic said he uses solvent

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okayfine
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Re: Rheis' 72 4door

Post by okayfine » 23 Jan 2010 15:27

Continuous up/down, in/out motion when honing the bore. You don't want to hone in marks concentric with the rings, you want as much of cross-hatch as possible. I've used WD-40, but as you're going to be cleaning the bores afterward I don't think it makes much difference.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

Rheis
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Re: Rheis' 72 4door

Post by Rheis » 23 Jan 2010 16:15

ok so its off to buy a hone and a corded variable speed drill (I needed a corded drill anyways)... I'll keep everyone posted .. I got my fingers crossed

thanks for all the help so far everyone

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McShagger510
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Re: Rheis' 72 4door

Post by McShagger510 » 24 Jan 2010 12:29

Have Randi at Magnem Engines check it out - just down the street from you.

James
The person with the sun in their eyes has the right of way. - my brother

'72 2dr. 510 Turbo
'73 240Z all stock
'71 2dr. 510 stock......for now
'91 Nissan truck *SOLD*
'02 TOYOTA Tacoma
'78 Kawasaki Z1-R
'84 Kawasaki GPZ750 Turbo
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Rheis
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Re: Rheis' 72 4door

Post by Rheis » 05 Feb 2010 16:53

So I haven't bought the drill or hone yet but I managed to clean the front cover, I think it turned out good. After 15 min of chiseling with a dull flat headed screwdriver and a green scrubbie it looked like this
DSC00181.JPG

Rheis
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Re: Rheis' 72 4door

Post by Rheis » 22 Mar 2010 12:10

So I decided to just drop the engine off to be honed by my mechanic .. anyways it cleaned up good except for a few small pits (I will get pictures later) so it seems like it cant be used :( . He says it would be fine for a na motor but a turbo he isn't so sure. So now I assume my options are 1.have it bored again (if it can) and buy new pistons 2. take the pistons rods crank etc and transfer into another stock L20 block I have which would need to be bored and o-ringed 3. run the setup on a stock 1600 I have sitting around (might just be a waste of time) and see what happens :lol: :twisted:

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