Jordan's '72 2 door KA project

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JordanTr
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Re: Jordan's '72 2 door KA project

Post by JordanTr » 04 Oct 2015 11:46

Like most of the other guys out there, it's been a long time since my last update. I went home to pick up the 510 at the beginning of August just in time to hit the Vancouver show.

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Made the trek back to Quesnel and ripped around in the car for the rest of the summer. I had a spare set of VDO gauges from my parts Audi so I put those in the 510 and they fit super well. I still need to do the mechanical/electrical work necessary to install the senders and make them functional. It now appears that I really need an orange needle tach to make it all look correct. As you can see, my dash pad cracked again despite my repairs last summer.

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I've also been working on some redesigned camber plates. By my rough math, I figure I can gain roughly 1.8-2.2* caster just by changing around the top plate. This would bring my total caster to just over 5* each side. This should help to stabilize the car some more at highway speeds. My steering box is also getting tired. 8" front rims and sticky tires are taking their toll. I'll see about swapping boxes for next year.

Note the sketched circle is the current placement of the strut.

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I went to the Quesnel car show in late August and saw a ton of muscle cars. There were 4 Japanese cars in a show of ~300. It was a very different crowd compared to what you'd see down in the valley.

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One of the roommates is big into photography so I coerced him into taking a break from shooting weddings and take some rolling shots yesterday. I'm pretty stoked how they turned out. He takes some pretty prime shots.

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I picked up an M30 3.9 R200 and an ATS 1.5 way LSD so I'm hoping to get a new rear end setup going over the winter. Looks like the winter list hasn't changed much since last year but that's probably a good thing since it means I've got a reliable turn key car! :D

Here's the winter list:
Rebuild 3.9 1.5 way LSD
Relay headlights
Wire up auxiliary gauges
Get the rear camber in spec by fabbing new drivers inner rear control arm mounts
New front camber plate upper mounts to gain some more caster
Pair of 215/40R16s for up front
Realign
Adjustable hood bumpers on the rad support

Now all I need is some wrench time!
Jordan | '72 2 door KA project | '94 240sx RB26DETT | '97 Silvia RB25DET | '90 Audi 90 Quattro 20V (DD)

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PoorMtnKid
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Re: Jordan's '72 2 door KA project

Post by PoorMtnKid » 05 Oct 2015 11:25

Rolling shots are great. I tried to do that before and it did not turn out good lol.
looking for pass. side arm rest

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Byron510
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Re: Jordan's '72 2 door KA project

Post by Byron510 » 05 Oct 2015 23:24

Definitely a fish out of water in Quesnel, where the average car is a F150 or Chev 1500, and then they get bigger or more beaten from there. As for the car show ….while in Bridgewater, NS earlier this summer, I took in a car show on evening in a parking lot at a Tim Hortons (of course) - nothing but American muscle. I wondered what would happen if, had it been possible, that I drive my home built EFI flared and caged 510 into that crown of old guys...could have been interesting to say the least. Good on ya for doing so, bet it was fun.

Good to see an update Jordan, great interior photos in fall colours BTW.

Byron
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because the opposite never works.

Three B's Racing
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Re: Jordan's '72 2 door KA project

Post by Three B's Racing » 06 Oct 2015 06:04

PoorMtnKid wrote:Rolling shots are great. I tried to do that before and it did not turn out good lol.
Best way to shoot rolling shots for maximum clarity of the subject is, low shutter about 40th to blur out the back ground, lens at F8 and ISO at 400 and a good strobe where you can adjust light output. The faster the strobes light output the faster action it'll freeze so it'll freeze the car while keeping the back ground blurry to show action as the strobes light will not reach that far out. I like using about 1/4 power with +1/3 to + 1/4 extra flash power added at the strobe and a circular polarizer to saturate colors nicely or a color enhancing filter. Naturally you gota be able to read the light and determine settings from there.
"Lastnight the wife said oh boy when your dead you can't take nothing with you but your soul oh "Think"
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JordanTr
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Re: Jordan's '72 2 door KA project

Post by JordanTr » 12 Jan 2016 23:47

Thanks for the kind words. I have yet to get some serious photography experience--one of the room mates did all the work above.

Been busy working, adventuring, doing S14 stuff, yada yada but the one thing I really want to do on the 510 before next summer is:

-Swap the 3.9 R200 in with the 29 spline 1.5way LSD
-Fab up a high cap rear diff cover since the Z31T covers are NLA
-Fix pinion seal leak
-Fix inner drivers rear LCA adjuster to fix camber issues
-2 new yoko S drives 215/40R16 for the front (I actually need new tires now)
-New battery (5 years has killed this one)
-Revisit driveline angle and fix accordingly (possibly rebalance driveshaft as well)

I'd like to do a bunch of autoXs this summer in Q town and PG so we'll see! Too many projects!

I got the pathfinder axles I need to complete my redundant diff setup. Lying on your back on a layer of ice sucks btw but the last pair of pathy axles I pulled were taken out in 30+ summer weather... I just can't get my timing correct.

Same plan as before: Z31T CV joints (non vLSD this time to match the "real" LSD) mated to 1991 Pathfinder center bars with the outer cage reversed to create a shorter effective axle length on the drivers side.

R32GTR/Z32TT/early Q45 6x1 axles, Z31T 4x1 axles, and Pathy/Z32NA/R32GTST/J30 5x1 axles. As shown, the balls and cage size goes up with the number of flange bolts (makes sense!).
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My precious...

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New axles for clutch pack LSD. No powdercoating this time... Too time consuming. Unfortunately the Z31T axles I got were rebuilt and 1 was reground with oversize balls so we'll see how long it lasts. After a good cleaning and treatment with a tacky moly grease:

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Old ones for a throwback:

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I miss the OEM green already as tacky as it looks...

That's it for now! :D
Jordan | '72 2 door KA project | '94 240sx RB26DETT | '97 Silvia RB25DET | '90 Audi 90 Quattro 20V (DD)

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JordanTr
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Re: Jordan's '72 2 door KA project

Post by JordanTr » 04 Apr 2018 22:58

Wow! 26 months since an update!

Cliff notes: I drove the 510 a little bit, finished building Golddust (RB26 S14), bought an S14 Silvia and RB25 swapped it, did a couple minor things with the 510.

Purchased 2 new tires and a new battery for the 510. Logged a couple thousand kms in 2016 and about 1000 in 2017.

I bought a truck to replace the Audi 90 Quattro 20V for daily duties. Drab grey fleet lol!
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Caught some fall colors driving it. Feels slow compared to RB25 silvia!
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Moved out of the shop briefly to get some fresh air.
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16 pistons of purple brake performance for the Silvia
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Got a dog.
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Designed puppy palace
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Rendered the board and batten puppy palace.
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Finn likes it.
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Dream render of rims hanging off the wall.
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Bought some parts from China and made it happen.
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Got some beautiful parts from a fellow member here and installed. It also alerted me that my bumper brackets were on the wrong sides!
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Some powdercoated 20% black parts (and some painted parts) for the mechanical LSD GTR diff upgrade for Silvia.
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R33 GTR diff for Silvia. 31 spline output shafts!
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Drew up some exhaust parts for Silvia
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Dummy cat jigged.
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TIg welding slowly improving.
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Fitting.
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Complete.
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More interesting things coming in the future!
Jordan | '72 2 door KA project | '94 240sx RB26DETT | '97 Silvia RB25DET | '90 Audi 90 Quattro 20V (DD)

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Heinrich
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Re: Jordan's '72 2 door KA project

Post by Heinrich » 05 Apr 2018 01:01

Good Going.
Progress is slow, but it is progress non the less.

RONSLYCHUK
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Re: Jordan's '72 2 door KA project

Post by RONSLYCHUK » 05 Apr 2018 08:36

Nice stuff Jordan.

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gooned
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Re: Jordan's '72 2 door KA project

Post by gooned » 05 Apr 2018 20:22

Been busy!

PM me on that offer...road tripped the M to Sooke for spring break, family was enjoying the back roads...I’m lucky!

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JordanTr
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Re: Jordan's '72 2 door KA project

Post by JordanTr » 08 Apr 2018 16:25

Hey Jason. Never got a PM...
Jordan | '72 2 door KA project | '94 240sx RB26DETT | '97 Silvia RB25DET | '90 Audi 90 Quattro 20V (DD)

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JordanTr
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Re: Jordan's '72 2 door KA project

Post by JordanTr » 08 Sep 2018 08:32

I'm getting close to needing a new clutch on the KA so I decided to do some learning and documenting about the process. See below!

I figured I would write a little bit about balancing for everyone's light reading over coffee albeit on a relatively technical subject.

For those of you that don't know, I spend my days at work in charge of the reliability of a lot of rotating equipment. I have learned a lot so far in my career and one of those subjects is balancing. In a nerdy sense, balancing changes either the mass distribution of a rotating item so that the mass centroid and centre of rotation coincide (adding or removing balancing weights) or by changing the axis of rotation so that it coincides with the centre of mass. Sounds pretty abstract, right? Generally this looks like mass addition or subtraction at a specific angle on the part to alter the mass distribution. Balancing is very important for high-speed machinery to reduce vibration. In fact, balance is actually measured by permissible residual unbalance rather than balance. Like most other technical items, absolute zero is tough to achieve so an achievable value must be chosen! For us at the mill, “over” balancing rotating equipment leads to better reliability because of the reduced vibrations in the machine. An 1800rpm pump running 350 days/year for 7 years will spin 6.3 billion cycles so every little reduction in vibration counts.

ISO publishes a balancing standard, ISO 1940, that outlines minimum recommendations for balance of rigid rotors. The balance standard uses the desired level of machine vibration at operating speed to determine the permissible level of unbalance in the part. For example, a fan that operates at 3600rpm with a desired vibration level during operation of 1mm/s would be balanced to ISO G1 at 3600rpm. The standard publishes maximum permissible residual unbalances (minimum balance) in common machines (see below). Unfortunately for us consumers, this has been perceived as the standard and not the minimum standard. Note the very low precision balance levels for automotive components: G40 for wheels, prop shafts, and crankshafts; G6.3 for flywheels (if you’re lucky). In contrast, every fan, impeller, and belt sheave at the mill is balanced to ISO G1 spec—an “over” balanced spec in reference to the minimum above.

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The balancing spec is one piece of the puzzle but there is also another piece of the puzzle and that is single or 2 plane balancing. Single plane balancing removes the radial unbalance whereas 2 plane balancing removes both the radial unbalance and the “wag” by adding or removing weight from 2 separate planes on the rotor. This is a good question to ask anyone who is doing balancing for you: “One plane or 2 plane?”. It’s very easy to tell on wheels since a 2 plane balance will have correction weights on the inside and outside rim lip (or nearby it) whereas single plane will only have weights at the center of the rim barrel.

Balancing requirements for general automotive components are rather lax due to 2 things: 1) vehicles don’t encounter all too high of rotational speeds (apart from turbos) compared to other machines (9000rpm for AP1 Honda S2000), and 2) vehicles don’t need the ultra high reliability of plant processing equipment. For example, a Honda Civic operating for the same 7 years as the pump above (assuming an average speed of 50km/h) would accumulate ~3,000,000 kilometers!! For someone like myself, the option to reduce noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH) by over-balancing components is something I would like to exercise. For my own vehicles, the reliability benefits are obviously good as well but are much less tangible.

Last year, I purchased a new somewhat lightweight flywheel (13 pound chromoly) for the KA in my car. It is be paired with a 350Z OEM replacement clutch/pressure plate (Exedy NSC633). For those that have heard of the “White Bunny” clutch upgrade, this one is sort of the newest generation of that.

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I will systematically walk through the balancing details of the clutch and flywheel assembly along with any other comments.

1) As found flywheel details
2) As found pressure plate details
3) Flywheel mandrel balanced to G1
4) Flywheel runout check
5) Flywheel as found (2 plane)
6) Flywheel as found (single plane)
7) Flywheel as found (2 plane, again)
8 ) Flywheel corrected
9) Pressure plate as found (2 plane)
10) Pressure plate corrected

1)
The flywheel as found has been painted heavily everywhere except the pilot diameter for the crank. This thick paint will likely induce runout once bolted to the crank and must be removed. I removed the paint from both sides of the bolted flange and I removed the paint from the flywheel teeth and all the loose paint off the OD in preparation for balancing. I also chased the paint from the 9 threaded holes for the pressure plate to ensure the bolts could be installed and torqued properly. I purchased new class 12.9 socket head cap screws for the pressure plate since they are the strongest readily available and cheap metric fasteners. There are no telltale signs on the flywheel such as balance weights or weight removal scars indicating a balance was completed on the flywheel post machining. For $135 what can you expect anyways?!

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2)
The Exedy pressure plate has 2 balance weights of different sizes affixed near the OD indicating that it was balanced. I don’t know how well it was balanced yet, however.

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3)
The 8lb mandrel was machined and balanced to G1 with 60mg and 47mg residual unbalance in the 2 correction planes respectively.

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4)
The Nissan FSM (300ZX Z32) lists the below specifications for flywheel runout of 0.0059” TIR or less. The XTD flywheel measured approximately 0.003” so not bad on that measure.

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5)
The ~20lb mandrel and flywheel together were checked against 2 plane balance specifications of G1 at 8000rpm resulting in a target residual unbalance per plane or 0.2g-in. The mass correction required in the 2 planes was 1.27g @ 281* and 3.19g @ 273* in each of the planes.

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6)
The tolerance specification was changed on the balancer to reflect a single plane balance with target of 0.4g-in total. The photo below outlines the findings quite well with 4.43g of weight to remove at 275*. Note the weights from above sum to the single plane mass correction. Since the result is 64X higher than G1, the flywheel as purchased came balanced to ~G64, well above the minimum standard of G6.3 or G16 from the table above. Cliff notes: remove the paint from the critical fit zones of your flywheel and have it balanced!
After balancing in single plane, the resultant unbalance was 7.5mg which significantly surpasses G1 (69mg permissible residual unbalance). At this point, the flywheel begins to look like swiss cheese!

As Found!
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As Left
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7)
After single plane balancing the flywheel to ISO G1, the 2 plane balance was checked. Interestingly, the magnitude of unbalance on each plane increased due to the changes caused by the single plane balance. It’s worth noting that the magnitude is approximately equal and 180* apart meaning it has achieved single plane balance.

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8 )
Correcting the flywheel in 2 planes proved to be rather difficult due to the uneven mass distribution. Performing a mass correction on one plane affected the other. After hours of work, we resigned ourselves that this was pretty much good enough since we had reduced the 2 plane unbalance by about 90%.

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9)
Once the pressure plate was installed, the positioning of clutch/pp was marked. The 2 plane balance as found was quite even at 3.37g @ 186* and 3.57g @ 327*. To avoid the 2 plane tail chasing and due to time constraints, we balanced the pressure plate in single plane by removing some material from its OD. As found balance was 2.23g at 249*.

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10)
After single plane balancing of the pressure plate, the residual unbalance was once again down at 67mg @ 95*. As an exercise, we loosened half of the pressure plate bolts and repositioned their washers to see the effect on the overall balance. Once checked, it revealed 95mg of unbalance, about 50% more than when all washers were positioned furthest outboard (by tightening all bolts at the bottom of flywheel).

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Unfortunately I haven’t had a chance to install this setup. One day I would like to check the stock parts that are removed to see where their balance is.

I believe it would be very interesting to take a set of rims/tires, have them road force balanced, and then precision balance them to ISO G1 compared to ~G40 that your friendly neighborhood tire shop would do. I think that vehicle OEMs “over” balance parts during manufacture so that new vehicles are very nice and smooth. I think this is part of the reason that “nothing drives like a new car”. If you inspect high quality brake rotors, there is evidence of material removed indicating that they were balanced. Cheap rotors will have no such telltales.

I recently quit my job up north and moved to the Kootenays so that required a lot of moving shop stuff, 510 etc.

Here's a shot of Datsun stuff etc. headed south. After the photo I fixed the tongue weight. You would not believe how much stuff you can can fit in a chemical tote. It's like a watertight, stackable, 800L industrial moving box!

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Air quality at 1pm the day I left.

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That's it for now!
Jordan | '72 2 door KA project | '94 240sx RB26DETT | '97 Silvia RB25DET | '90 Audi 90 Quattro 20V (DD)

510rob
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Re: Jordan's '72 2 door KA project

Post by 510rob » 08 Sep 2018 14:05

Thanks for documenting your work so thoroughly Jordan.

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icehouse
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Re: Jordan's '72 2 door KA project

Post by icehouse » 08 Sep 2018 16:07

That was fun to read. Can’t wait to see if the improved balance makes for a better burn out machine!

Although my buddy Josh just pulled his lightened flywheel out of his KA. Said it made the gear box sound like it was going to explode. He even swapped to a different trans thinking that might have been the issue. I’ve personally never had a car with a lightened flywheel. Seems like a lot of money for 1hp. :)
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

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gooned
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Re: Jordan's '72 2 door KA project

Post by gooned » 08 Sep 2018 16:24

Hey Jordan, thanks for the tech and congrats on the move.

You will have to let me know where you landed in the Kootenays, look fw to catching up with you again.

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JordanTr
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Re: Jordan's '72 2 door KA project

Post by JordanTr » 08 Sep 2018 19:49

I'm glad some people actually read it and got something out of it!!

A lightweight flywheel will only affect the transient response of the engine so I won't even get 1 HP!
I went with Chromo, not aluminum, so I didn't overshoot the lightness like an aluminum flywheel probably would. The larger clutch and PP also adds inertia to offset the lightweight flywheel. Hopefully it ends up just right!

Perhaps Josh has a balancing problem with his flywheel!! :twisted:

I'm in Kimberley and working at the mill north of town. Unfortunately it's a little far for an Octoberfast drive.
Jordan | '72 2 door KA project | '94 240sx RB26DETT | '97 Silvia RB25DET | '90 Audi 90 Quattro 20V (DD)

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