Lift is in, car in air...

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Byron510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Byron510 »

I did the container storage thing for 4 years while building my shop. It sure felt good to unload that 40’ container last year!

Sounds like you have stickler on your design. Time for a meeting, ask what they want and then bend “their idea” to your goals if possible. If possible, using “their ideas” may be a way of achieving your goals.

Thankfully the city I’m in did play ball with me. When they made a “suggestion”, I just did it. And you know one of those “suggestions” may have just saved me a floor two weeks ago when we had an incredible cloud burst of epic proportions. It was to do with the storm pipe size, and the suggestion was to step up to 6” from the standard 4” pipe to the storm connection on the street. Yes it did cost me a couple grand more, but 8 of my neighbours flooded in this storm, and we had nothing.
Another example was framing. 20” centres is pretty standard, but it was suggested that I do 16”. No problem, studs are not that expensive. So the engineer and I went one step further and placed the trusses on 16” Venter’s as well. The city wanted a specific steel brace from the foundation to either side of the 16’ wide bay door, we put in a larger than required brace. We placed extra 2x6 studs on either side of the beam over the door, and instead of stacking 2x12’s, my engineer suggested a laminate beam. The floor was poured much thicker tha minimum, all solid wood was used in all parts of construction and many more quality features added. When it came to the final, I got the supposedly hard ass inspector that no one ever wants on their job site. His comment was that he was designating my shop as an official evacuation site for the city. So I guess he was impressed.

Thoughts on my process anyways. Sometime you have to run a bit with their game, but make sure you get what you need as well in the end.

Byron
Love people and use things,
because the opposite never works.
Camano510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Camano510 »

I agree with you, Byron. The only problem I have with that plan is that I'm not dealing with people who have any real building experience or knowledge, as these are retired members of the neighborhood. I had reviewed the HOA limitations, and designed within them, but there's the portion of the HOA that allows the Architectural Review Committee (The 3 retiree's) that gives them approval authority. Their reasoning was weak- Fear that the shop was planned to be larger than the minimum sq footage required for a home, and that I would somehow then sub-divide the lot (NOT allowed), the idea that a large shop would somehow have a negative impact on the neighboring properties resale values (even though it would be trimmed out and painted to match the house), and that I was not willing to provide (i.e. pay $6K) to provide them the permitted plans until they had approved the design. Didn't see how that would work- Spend the $, have them deny it, then take another spin on the merry-go-round again. I gave them a sketch from the building supplier so they can see what it will look like, but that was too hard to grasp.

Funny part- ALL the neighbors are more upset that I was denied than I am. They all are fine with what I am wanting to do, have been asking when I'm getting started, and can't understand what the ARC is 'protecting' them from. Several are car guys (One guy has a very clean 240Z), and look forward to hanging out there, especially once the lift goes in!

As I look forward, with their ages, and the idea that I'll be there for a long time, I may have to volunteer my time and experience to become a member of this ARC, just to be the voice of reason among the Board, who seem to default to NO when anything is proposed (tree removal to protect views, enforcing the most basic of requirements, etc...)

Will let you know how it goes.
Darryl Cavanaugh
"There is no such thing as free school. Every lesson learned cost me some form of 'tuition'. Time, money, or pain. Sometimes all three".
71 510 2dr father/son project
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Byron510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Byron510 »

Hmmm, that is frustrating. Can you meet with this group in any way? Get a confirmation from them that what your plans are would be ok, give them a chance to ask you questions, ect?
I'd like to think this is still a democracy where all parties have a say....

Byron
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because the opposite never works.
Camano510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Camano510 »

Shop update.

Attended December's monthly Board meeting. Explained clearly my intentions, lowered the footprint dimensions to be under the 'problematic' over 1800sq ft issue (36x48=1728 sq ft). Pushed hard to make them understand the idea that I required their 'tentative' approval of the plans before I was going to spend the $ acquiring the actual drawings. They agreed that would be allowed, and got a response a couple weeks back that now they needed a landscaping plan to show how I would hide the shop from view, citing a section of the CC&R's about 'outdoor storage requiring some form of shielding from view', although if you were to read it, its really not applicable, being that this will be a building that will effectively eliminate any 'outdoor storage'. They also requested my approval for them to reach out to the neighbors in my area to 'ensure they understood the scope and scale of my building'. I have written a letter to the neighbors, pre-emptively giving them a 'heads-up' of what the committee is doing, in effect greasing the skids for the actual correspondence from the HOA. I am actually looking forward to a couple of the responses- I think the neighbors who go the most upset from the original denial may have some choice word for the committee.

If this gets denied, I will have no choice but to pursue legal action. I will then become very 'popular' with the neighborhood, once the HOA has to defend itself in court, which it cannot afford to do. I can.

I would have less of a case to argue if one of my neighbors (one of the upset ones) didn't have a 1500 sq ft, 2 story shop behind his home already.

I will eventually be on this review committee, bringing with me the experiences that will prevent others from having to endure this dumbness. I'll call it 'giving back' to my community.

More to come, I'm sure.
Darryl Cavanaugh
"There is no such thing as free school. Every lesson learned cost me some form of 'tuition'. Time, money, or pain. Sometimes all three".
71 510 2dr father/son project
Camano510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Camano510 »

Quick story update.

Another denial in April. This time for the shop being a Web Steel Buildings ‘kit’, even though it would be sided and trimmed to match the house, since steel buildings are not allowed. I like them because they have a clear floor, with vaulted interior ceilings. Statement was that “all living space must be stick built on-site. No components manufactured or fabricated off-site and then delivered to a lot is allowed”. So, I went to the county, and they don’t consider a detached garage with no plumbing or bedrooms etc, as living space. Number 2, every home in the entire development has an engineered truss package, which was manufactured and delivered to its lot. Also, there was NO MENTION of the results of the poll of the neighbors, because as I found out later EVERYONE gave my project a green light.

At that point, I decided my next move was to prepare to sue.

I began my investigation of Washington State real estate law, discussing HOA CC&R’s with members of other HOA’s, who were very sympathetic to my issue, and reviewed the CC&R’s I was working under. Also had a couple free consultations with attorney’s, who, after laying out the history, said that it would be very quick and easy to ‘win’ this case, if it became necessary to go that far.

Turns out that the review committee has no authority. They are only there to make recommendations. The responsibility to vote according to the CC&R’s falls solely on the members of the board, who are required (by law) to vote according to what is actually stated in the document. Not ‘liking’ a project request for its size and scope isn’t legally allowed.

I attended the monthly meeting last Tuesday, loaded for bear. Called out the review committee head, disputing every reason for denial as an incorrect interpretation. I Did however, as an act of ‘peace’, offer to use traditional construction methods. It will be more work, and time for me, but I really don’t care. I believe I’ll actually save some money by not purchasing the kit. The review committee head asked if we could meet the following week to discuss this further, and I said “No. Everyone is here now, and you taken enough of our time. I expect an answer.” They response came the next day. Approval, and once I have a permit, I can begin immediately. Knowing I was headed towards a lawsuit I’m sure was the final straw- they’re complaining they don’t have enough money for everyday stuff, so there certainly wasn’t going to be any for my lawsuit, and the neighborhood would have come uncorked on the board if they asked for an assessment to defend them for their misinterpretation of what is in the CC&R’s.

So, eventually, my post title will be accurate again.

Will update with progress. I just finished my design, so now I have to get the drawings and engineering done to submit for a permit.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
Darryl Cavanaugh
"There is no such thing as free school. Every lesson learned cost me some form of 'tuition'. Time, money, or pain. Sometimes all three".
71 510 2dr father/son project
WxMan
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by WxMan »

That's great news. It is brutal that you had to go through all this though. I respect your perseverance in fighting for what is right. Hopefully your efforts will not only benefit you, but others in the future.
The company motto seems to be "We're not happy 'till you're not happy."
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Byron510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Byron510 »

WxMan wrote: 20 Aug 2019 13:01 That's great news. It is brutal that you had to go through all this though. I respect your perseverance in fighting for what is right. Hopefully your efforts will not only benefit you, but others in the future.
Agreed, what a waste of your time. I'm glad that you were able to find local help and not put yourself out of pocket too much to get going. But time is worth money, and you spent a lot of time getting yourself and your case educated. Good on you for sticking to it.

I too have had some issues with a neighbor on my garage build. But I have consulted with the city on absolutely everything I have done - before starting anything, asked for their input and played ball with them to the "T". in the end, it does pay off, and so far it's been pretty smooth sailing despite the constant worry of what some neighbor may be brewing up in their heads next.

Look forward to your build, again!

Byron
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because the opposite never works.
510rob
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by 510rob »

Good on you for seeing it through and out-reasoning all of the ridiculous irrational power-hungry 'committee' people.
Camano510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Camano510 »

Plans completed. Minor alteration to the footprint- seismic limitations only allow it to be 35 ft wide, without small stiffening walls on the interior. That, and instead of it being a big box, I did a 4x10ft cut back at the man door entry to give it some detail. In order to get the SF back, I made one side 46'-6, and the longer 50'-6. Total SF is 1727.5.

Submitted my plans on Wednesday, and they said 4 weeks. Concrete guy can't get me in until January, but its not like I'll be twiddling my thumbs between now and then. I'm sure I'll be up against it once thing really get going. Always am...

Off to Ireland tomorrow......
Darryl Cavanaugh
"There is no such thing as free school. Every lesson learned cost me some form of 'tuition'. Time, money, or pain. Sometimes all three".
71 510 2dr father/son project
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gooned
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by gooned »

Should be great to see this come together!
Camano510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Camano510 »

From my post regarding the Battery design issues on the 787 back in April of 2013:

"We've been expecting to see some harsh treatment from the NTSB. The approval process that was used during the development phase was used because the FAA does not possess the manpower with the knowledge base to make the decisions on this newest of technology. They 'trusted the experts' and, in their opinion, it was the correct thing to do. I would expect this hearing would prompt an increase in the personnel there, and a more involved review system."

I guess my concerns were valid, and the Corporate culture here DID NOT change.....

That being said, I have worked in both country's where the affected airline's are, and though the MAX does have its design problems, it is my opinion that the cultures that exist there are a much larger contributor to theses accidents than the media (and our government leaders) are interested in acknowledging. I have friends relatives who are 737 pilots, and because they are PILOTS, they know how to fly. This current group are coming up into the cockpit, having less and less real experience, and have been 'trained' that the airplane will do the work. We are in a transitioning period in regards to technology, and there are going to be issues as we travel through it.


In the 'shop project/build' world, still waiting for my permit....
Darryl Cavanaugh
"There is no such thing as free school. Every lesson learned cost me some form of 'tuition'. Time, money, or pain. Sometimes all three".
71 510 2dr father/son project
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gooned
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by gooned »

We are in a transitioning period in regards to technology, and there are going to be issues as we travel through it.
I think this applies to so much more than just flying, scary on some fronts.

Permits, hurry up & wait!
Camano510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Camano510 »

Couple updates...

Just returned form Moscow. Amazing place, at least where I was staying. Red Square, The Kremlin, The Boshoi Ballet Theatre, etc, were all within walking distance. Weather was very mild for the time of year, so we weren't fighting that. Site was excellent, even without a hangar (we had a Company we use for remote locations build us an amazing tent structure), job went beautifully. Actually got the whole weekend off after the job- only because changing a flight for a 1 day sooner departure was not cost effective, or really possible. Great trip. We very rarely go there, so I feel fortunate to have been chosen. I would gladly return if needed, and since I have the (very difficult to acquire) VISA, chances would be good.

Shop back to design for a quick alteration- we were at the absolute limits and the county balked. Minor alteration to the footprint (again). Took the longest wall, and split it, pushing it out 4 ft at the front of the building, and in 4 ft at the rear, to create an 8 ft bracing/shear wall. Altered the roof line a bit, but if you saw my house, busy roof lines are the rule of thumb. Back in the county's hands. Always something. Have my dirt guy lined up for the site prep and road/driveway gravel base. He's just waiting for me.

Not even to my car from the airplane after landing, and the phone is ringing. Saudi Arabia for an 87 composite repair. Gone most of January....

I SWEAR someday I will be touching these cars again.....

Merry Christmas to all The Realm. Enjoy your time together with family. It's precious.
Darryl Cavanaugh
"There is no such thing as free school. Every lesson learned cost me some form of 'tuition'. Time, money, or pain. Sometimes all three".
71 510 2dr father/son project
Camano510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Camano510 »

Oh, and on the Boeing front, Muilenburg is out. Not his fault, really. They should be grilling James McNerney....

Just means I'll be busy for the foreseeable future.... Like that's something new.
Darryl Cavanaugh
"There is no such thing as free school. Every lesson learned cost me some form of 'tuition'. Time, money, or pain. Sometimes all three".
71 510 2dr father/son project
Camano510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Camano510 »

Hello Realm-

Latest update. Came back from Saudi, left a couple weeks later for Dubai. A week into that repair, the worldwide shutdown began. Restaurants and bars shut down, only able to get food through room service, etc.... We turned up the wick a little on the repair, and made it out on the last day that Emirates was flying. Been home since then (3/23).

Dirt guy shows up, does all the grading/driveway/shop foundation prep. He was able to because even though residential construction was halted, he was still able to get rock. I added a circular drive to the front yard, after I’d basically destroyed it removing the in-ground sprinkler system that never worked right, and frankly was the most ridiculous installation. He connected me with a concrete contractor friend of his, and his crew showed up and set all the forms, in anticipation for the concrete suppliers to be able to start delivery. County inspector came by Friday, and the pour is scheduled for Tuesday.

I have been knocking off the to-do list like crazy. I can’t imagine how much calendar time all these tasks would have taken- literally years, if I had to guess. All the deck and railings complete, cars repaired, little interior projects done.... I’ve opted to stay away from the factory for another couple weeks. The social distancing/masks/boggle that is that place can wait. Plan to return on the 18th.

Hope everyone and their families are well. Crazy life experience for everyone. Stay safe.

Should be able to start framing in July, as I’m scheduled for 30 days in Dublin at the end of May.
Darryl Cavanaugh
"There is no such thing as free school. Every lesson learned cost me some form of 'tuition'. Time, money, or pain. Sometimes all three".
71 510 2dr father/son project
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