Lift is in, car in air...

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Byron510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Byron510 » 27 Sep 2018 06:59

I did the container storage thing for 4 years while building my shop. It sure felt good to unload that 40’ container last year!

Sounds like you have stickler on your design. Time for a meeting, ask what they want and then bend “their idea” to your goals if possible. If possible, using “their ideas” may be a way of achieving your goals.

Thankfully the city I’m in did play ball with me. When they made a “suggestion”, I just did it. And you know one of those “suggestions” may have just saved me a floor two weeks ago when we had an incredible cloud burst of epic proportions. It was to do with the storm pipe size, and the suggestion was to step up to 6” from the standard 4” pipe to the storm connection on the street. Yes it did cost me a couple grand more, but 8 of my neighbours flooded in this storm, and we had nothing.
Another example was framing. 20” centres is pretty standard, but it was suggested that I do 16”. No problem, studs are not that expensive. So the engineer and I went one step further and placed the trusses on 16” Venter’s as well. The city wanted a specific steel brace from the foundation to either side of the 16’ wide bay door, we put in a larger than required brace. We placed extra 2x6 studs on either side of the beam over the door, and instead of stacking 2x12’s, my engineer suggested a laminate beam. The floor was poured much thicker tha minimum, all solid wood was used in all parts of construction and many more quality features added. When it came to the final, I got the supposedly hard ass inspector that no one ever wants on their job site. His comment was that he was designating my shop as an official evacuation site for the city. So I guess he was impressed.

Thoughts on my process anyways. Sometime you have to run a bit with their game, but make sure you get what you need as well in the end.

Byron
Love people and use things,
because the opposite never works.

Camano510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Camano510 » 01 Oct 2018 08:59

I agree with you, Byron. The only problem I have with that plan is that I'm not dealing with people who have any real building experience or knowledge, as these are retired members of the neighborhood. I had reviewed the HOA limitations, and designed within them, but there's the portion of the HOA that allows the Architectural Review Committee (The 3 retiree's) that gives them approval authority. Their reasoning was weak- Fear that the shop was planned to be larger than the minimum sq footage required for a home, and that I would somehow then sub-divide the lot (NOT allowed), the idea that a large shop would somehow have a negative impact on the neighboring properties resale values (even though it would be trimmed out and painted to match the house), and that I was not willing to provide (i.e. pay $6K) to provide them the permitted plans until they had approved the design. Didn't see how that would work- Spend the $, have them deny it, then take another spin on the merry-go-round again. I gave them a sketch from the building supplier so they can see what it will look like, but that was too hard to grasp.

Funny part- ALL the neighbors are more upset that I was denied than I am. They all are fine with what I am wanting to do, have been asking when I'm getting started, and can't understand what the ARC is 'protecting' them from. Several are car guys (One guy has a very clean 240Z), and look forward to hanging out there, especially once the lift goes in!

As I look forward, with their ages, and the idea that I'll be there for a long time, I may have to volunteer my time and experience to become a member of this ARC, just to be the voice of reason among the Board, who seem to default to NO when anything is proposed (tree removal to protect views, enforcing the most basic of requirements, etc...)

Will let you know how it goes.
Darryl Cavanaugh
"There is no such thing as free school. Every lesson learned cost me some form of 'tuition'. Time, money, or pain. Sometimes all three".
71 510 2dr father/son project

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Byron510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Byron510 » 01 Oct 2018 10:33

Hmmm, that is frustrating. Can you meet with this group in any way? Get a confirmation from them that what your plans are would be ok, give them a chance to ask you questions, ect?
I'd like to think this is still a democracy where all parties have a say....

Byron
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because the opposite never works.

Camano510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Camano510 » 14 Feb 2019 08:51

Shop update.

Attended December's monthly Board meeting. Explained clearly my intentions, lowered the footprint dimensions to be under the 'problematic' over 1800sq ft issue (36x48=1728 sq ft). Pushed hard to make them understand the idea that I required their 'tentative' approval of the plans before I was going to spend the $ acquiring the actual drawings. They agreed that would be allowed, and got a response a couple weeks back that now they needed a landscaping plan to show how I would hide the shop from view, citing a section of the CC&R's about 'outdoor storage requiring some form of shielding from view', although if you were to read it, its really not applicable, being that this will be a building that will effectively eliminate any 'outdoor storage'. They also requested my approval for them to reach out to the neighbors in my area to 'ensure they understood the scope and scale of my building'. I have written a letter to the neighbors, pre-emptively giving them a 'heads-up' of what the committee is doing, in effect greasing the skids for the actual correspondence from the HOA. I am actually looking forward to a couple of the responses- I think the neighbors who go the most upset from the original denial may have some choice word for the committee.

If this gets denied, I will have no choice but to pursue legal action. I will then become very 'popular' with the neighborhood, once the HOA has to defend itself in court, which it cannot afford to do. I can.

I would have less of a case to argue if one of my neighbors (one of the upset ones) didn't have a 1500 sq ft, 2 story shop behind his home already.

I will eventually be on this review committee, bringing with me the experiences that will prevent others from having to endure this dumbness. I'll call it 'giving back' to my community.

More to come, I'm sure.
Darryl Cavanaugh
"There is no such thing as free school. Every lesson learned cost me some form of 'tuition'. Time, money, or pain. Sometimes all three".
71 510 2dr father/son project

Camano510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Camano510 » 20 Aug 2019 11:27

Quick story update.

Another denial in April. This time for the shop being a Web Steel Buildings ‘kit’, even though it would be sided and trimmed to match the house, since steel buildings are not allowed. I like them because they have a clear floor, with vaulted interior ceilings. Statement was that “all living space must be stick built on-site. No components manufactured or fabricated off-site and then delivered to a lot is allowed”. So, I went to the county, and they don’t consider a detached garage with no plumbing or bedrooms etc, as living space. Number 2, every home in the entire development has an engineered truss package, which was manufactured and delivered to its lot. Also, there was NO MENTION of the results of the poll of the neighbors, because as I found out later EVERYONE gave my project a green light.

At that point, I decided my next move was to prepare to sue.

I began my investigation of Washington State real estate law, discussing HOA CC&R’s with members of other HOA’s, who were very sympathetic to my issue, and reviewed the CC&R’s I was working under. Also had a couple free consultations with attorney’s, who, after laying out the history, said that it would be very quick and easy to ‘win’ this case, if it became necessary to go that far.

Turns out that the review committee has no authority. They are only there to make recommendations. The responsibility to vote according to the CC&R’s falls solely on the members of the board, who are required (by law) to vote according to what is actually stated in the document. Not ‘liking’ a project request for its size and scope isn’t legally allowed.

I attended the monthly meeting last Tuesday, loaded for bear. Called out the review committee head, disputing every reason for denial as an incorrect interpretation. I Did however, as an act of ‘peace’, offer to use traditional construction methods. It will be more work, and time for me, but I really don’t care. I believe I’ll actually save some money by not purchasing the kit. The review committee head asked if we could meet the following week to discuss this further, and I said “No. Everyone is here now, and you taken enough of our time. I expect an answer.” They response came the next day. Approval, and once I have a permit, I can begin immediately. Knowing I was headed towards a lawsuit I’m sure was the final straw- they’re complaining they don’t have enough money for everyday stuff, so there certainly wasn’t going to be any for my lawsuit, and the neighborhood would have come uncorked on the board if they asked for an assessment to defend them for their misinterpretation of what is in the CC&R’s.

So, eventually, my post title will be accurate again.

Will update with progress. I just finished my design, so now I have to get the drawings and engineering done to submit for a permit.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
Darryl Cavanaugh
"There is no such thing as free school. Every lesson learned cost me some form of 'tuition'. Time, money, or pain. Sometimes all three".
71 510 2dr father/son project

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WxMan
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by WxMan » 20 Aug 2019 13:01

That's great news. It is brutal that you had to go through all this though. I respect your perseverance in fighting for what is right. Hopefully your efforts will not only benefit you, but others in the future.
Russell

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Byron510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Byron510 » 20 Aug 2019 22:33

WxMan wrote:
20 Aug 2019 13:01
That's great news. It is brutal that you had to go through all this though. I respect your perseverance in fighting for what is right. Hopefully your efforts will not only benefit you, but others in the future.
Agreed, what a waste of your time. I'm glad that you were able to find local help and not put yourself out of pocket too much to get going. But time is worth money, and you spent a lot of time getting yourself and your case educated. Good on you for sticking to it.

I too have had some issues with a neighbor on my garage build. But I have consulted with the city on absolutely everything I have done - before starting anything, asked for their input and played ball with them to the "T". in the end, it does pay off, and so far it's been pretty smooth sailing despite the constant worry of what some neighbor may be brewing up in their heads next.

Look forward to your build, again!

Byron
Love people and use things,
because the opposite never works.

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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by 510rob » 21 Aug 2019 11:03

Good on you for seeing it through and out-reasoning all of the ridiculous irrational power-hungry 'committee' people.

Camano510
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by Camano510 » 06 Sep 2019 11:30

Plans completed. Minor alteration to the footprint- seismic limitations only allow it to be 35 ft wide, without small stiffening walls on the interior. That, and instead of it being a big box, I did a 4x10ft cut back at the man door entry to give it some detail. In order to get the SF back, I made one side 46'-6, and the longer 50'-6. Total SF is 1727.5.

Submitted my plans on Wednesday, and they said 4 weeks. Concrete guy can't get me in until January, but its not like I'll be twiddling my thumbs between now and then. I'm sure I'll be up against it once thing really get going. Always am...

Off to Ireland tomorrow......
Darryl Cavanaugh
"There is no such thing as free school. Every lesson learned cost me some form of 'tuition'. Time, money, or pain. Sometimes all three".
71 510 2dr father/son project

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gooned
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Re: Lift is in, car in air...

Post by gooned » 06 Sep 2019 19:23

Should be great to see this come together!

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