VG30DETT 510

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datsunscom
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VG30DETT 510

Postby datsunscom » 30 Jun 2010 09:37

Would it be worthwhile to post updates to my "had already been running but now down getting upgrades" VG30DETT 510 here?

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okayfine
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Re: VG30DETT 510

Postby okayfine » 30 Jun 2010 10:13

Jus' be givin' kids ideas, Dave.

I started my project thread after a majority of the work was done. It was still much fun and very interesting to go through it again in detail with pictures. If you can remember how it all started and the initial formations of your car and want to document it with pictures, I'd read it for sure, even though I know a lot about it between our conversations and www.datsuns.com.

And, besides, it is still, currently, a project build, is it not?
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

datsunscom
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Re: VG30DETT 510

Postby datsunscom » 30 Jun 2010 10:29

It certainly still is a project build...a lot of fab to be done yet too. I'll start digging stuff up, I have dozens of never-been-seen pictures of the build, both initial and current.

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Re: VG30DETT 510

Postby 510rob » 30 Jun 2010 11:10

Mr. Lum, we always appreciate thoughtful constructive posts, and you are a thoughtful and constructive sort of person, so post away and school us on the realities of dragon ownership. Besides, even if you end up posting non-constructive information, it will give Julian a chance to exercise his considerable analytical and linguistic talents. :P (sorry Julian, I couldn't resist :mrgreen: .)

What ever happened to your 1200 fastback that was going to receive an SR20?

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5teN
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Re: VG30DETT 510

Postby 5teN » 30 Jun 2010 11:20

Hey Dave! Spencer here. I'd certainly be keen to hear what you're working on!
Spencer

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jason
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Re: VG30DETT 510

Postby jason » 30 Jun 2010 11:45

Go for it Dave, we'd love to see what you're up too!
Jason

datsunscom
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Re: VG30DETT 510

Postby datsunscom » 30 Jun 2010 12:00

So...in the '90's I had a VG30DE in my 510, it put down 187whp per Dynojet, ran 13.9@100mph in the 1/4mi, got 20-21MPG on my work commutes and got 27MPG on trips to Canada and back
Image

Then a few years later decided that wasn't too much power, so I (err, with willing, evil, not exactly sane friends) upgraded to a JDM VG30DETT
Image

A little while later a friend - Steve Pepka - did some cosmetic work Image
so my car would be suitable to be featured in Mark Warner's "Street Turbocharging" book published by HP Books http://www.amazon.com/Street-TurbochargingHP1488-Installation-High-Performance-Turbocharger/dp/1557884889

Of you're wondering about the intercoolers in the engine bay, thye are (currently) the stock Z32 300Zx ones. air enters from the airdam, blows through the intercoolers, and vent outt he hood.
Image
Here's a better picture of the airdam modification
Image

It looked like this the last time it ran:
Image
Horsepower was up to 336 per the same dynojet, and torque was higher at 2000RPM than non-turbo VG made PEAK. highway milage was identical, 1/4mi was now 12.78@114MPH. You'd think that woud be enough, but after a couple of years it was time for a rebuild and amazingly (or not, if you know me) the upgrades haven't ended there ...

qship510
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Re: VG30DETT 510

Postby qship510 » 30 Jun 2010 17:53

Hello old friend :D

What's the current state? What kind of upgrades are you working on? Where did that VQ end up?

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okayfine
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Re: VG30DETT 510

Postby okayfine » 30 Jun 2010 20:55

510rob wrote:it will give Julian a chance to exercise his considerable analytical and linguistic talents. :P (sorry Julian, I couldn't resist :mrgreen: .)


Hey, a rose by any other name, and all that.

But there are few more-analytical 510 owners than Lum. Nothing happens on a Lum project until he's crunched the numbers! :mrgreen:
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

datsunscom
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Re: VG30DETT 510

Postby datsunscom » 30 Jun 2010 22:50

LOL, true, I am nothing if not a numbers guy. In any case, to continue this build story....
As with most guys, I view replacement opportunities as upgrade opportunities. Why just rebuild the VG30DETT and OEM sleeve-bearing turbos and maintain the less-than-optimal OEM exhaust manifolds when "hey, while the motor is out..."

While the engine did get a rebuild as well as forged pistons and rods, I did resist the temptation to go with more aggessive camshafts. While I am a power junkie, I also try to maintain OEM levels of driveability, idle and cold-start quality and yes, even fuel economy, so a camshaft change - at least at this point - is out. However, in the Z32 ('90-later 300ZX) circles the OEM exhaust manifolds are a known point for improvement with no performance/reliability/driveability drawbacks. This dyno comparison is from an internally stock VG30DETT, running GT25R turbos and the only change was swapping out the OEM manifolds - at this point the tuning wasn't even changed to take advantage of the extra flow:
Image
By the numbers the advantage is 20ft-lbs at 2300 increasing to 50+ft-lbs from 3200-4500RPM. WIN-WIN!

Needless to say, I am no longer running the OEM exhaust manifolds, yet they bolt up same as stock, with the one drawback being the OEM heat shields need modification to work. Downpipes are a similar story - for turbochargers, downpipes are as critical to how well a turbocharger spools and makes power as exhaust manifolds. These too, have been addressed:
OLD
Image

NEW
Image
Last edited by datsunscom on 30 Jun 2010 23:18, edited 1 time in total.

datsunscom
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Re: VG30DETT 510

Postby datsunscom » 30 Jun 2010 23:15

I must say however, the big reason for the downpipe change was because the new turbos - full ball bearing GT2554R's, the same turbo Jim Wolf calls a "530BB" and sells for Z32TT's and VQ/TT upgrades - have a 5-bolt downpipe attachment point, whereas the OEM ones are 4-bolt.

So...the turbos were chosen because they were the smallest full ball bearing units I could find that bolt up to OEM exhaust manifold bolt pattern. They just HAPPEN to have more flow capacity than the OEM ones. Again, while I am a power junkie, peak HP is not my goal. My 510 is a daily driver street car first and foremost, so it's torque production in the 2000-4000RPM range is every bit as important. So finally, here are my old torque numbers overlaid with the two runs that have the 530BB's.
Image

Note that even with bigger turbos, combining them with aftermarket manifolds still nets more torque at 2400RPM than I had before. It might be worthy to note here that 2400RPM corresponds to 65MPH in 5th, so old vs. new at 65MPH in 5th the new car will have more acceleration everywhere, not just way up top. Why my torque curve is flat whereas EVERY other DETT dyno chart I've seen has the big hump I don't know (I suspect my NVCS, aka varialbe valve timing, was inoperable during the dyno run.

Now you know how I got here, now back to the actual build. Currently the engine is 99% assembled, the transmission is bolted to it and I have it on my engine hoist, ready to go. I have rerouted heater feed and return lines to make heater hose replacement easier in the future. Actually the heater return line is out getting reworked and should be done Saturday, and I plan on dropping the engine in the car on July 5th.

Once the engine is bolted onto the motor mounts, there is still a fair amount of work, as I am going away from the JTW reprogrammed OEM ECU / MAF system to a MAP-based standalone ECU which means re-creating some intake plumbing and slight motor moint modification. Still, I hope to fire the engine by the end of July.
Last edited by datsunscom on 01 Jul 2010 01:08, edited 1 time in total.

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thisismatt
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Re: VG30DETT 510

Postby thisismatt » 30 Jun 2010 23:41

Would it be worthwhile to post updates to my "had already been running but now down getting upgrades" VG30DETT 510 here?

Definitely. I love this build. It's a great build with some impressive stats, but it's raw and not flashy/gaudy, and a real sleeper :twisted: Thanks for sharing
I'm your huckleberry.

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hang_510
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Re: VG30DETT 510

Postby hang_510 » 01 Jul 2010 14:17

datsunscom wrote:LOL, true, I am nothing if not a numbers guy.

all those numbers kept me from pursuing a TT build, thanks! :wink:
byron wrote:I'd be all over that like a fat kid on a smartie.

okayfine wrote:Sense doesn't always have everything to do with it, and I speak from experience.

datsunscom
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Re: VG30DETT 510

Postby datsunscom » 01 Jul 2010 14:22

hang_510 wrote:
datsunscom wrote:LOL, true, I am nothing if not a numbers guy.

all those numbers kept me from pursuing a TT build, thanks! :wink:


That's unusual, normally it's because everything else makes more sense that keeps guys from doing this swap. :lol:

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hang_510
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Re: VG30DETT 510

Postby hang_510 » 01 Jul 2010 14:28

more of the $$ / time / effort numbers...
the torque / HP #'s are why i still drool over yours :twisted:


so now im back looking at a VQ :mrgreen:
byron wrote:I'd be all over that like a fat kid on a smartie.

okayfine wrote:Sense doesn't always have everything to do with it, and I speak from experience.


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