Noobie's 510 project

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DADZSUN
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Spring (?) update

Post by DADZSUN » 19 Apr 2018 05:32

It's been awhile since my last update. Despite being crazy busy with work/life, I haven't stopped chipping away, just nothing exciting to show.

The R180 diff and Acura Integra wiper motor is installed and all electrical is complete right up to the firewall. Pretty much all of my time is in the engine bay, first shortening all the wires, and now troubleshooting ECU codes.
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Although the ECU is getting on 30 years old now, it's still quite capable of sharing any codes that arise - left lamp blinks denote orders of 10, right lamp 1's. Two blinks of red and one of green means #21.
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I first had error code #11 - no signal from Crank Angle Sensor - which ultimately meant I improperly wired a small part of the CANAM box. Once complete I'll share my exact setup.
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Now code #21 has popped up, no signal from the external coil. I need to purchase a Logic Probe to step through.
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Thankfully the Factory Service Manual (FSM) is pretty good & thorough at helping to troubleshoot. It's just a matter of being patient and stepping through.
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Everything else seems to be working well, the new fuel pump primes, motor turns, LEDs on the CANAM are operating as they should.
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project

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DADZSUN
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Here she continues to sit...

Post by DADZSUN » 07 May 2018 05:18

I'm a little bit baffled right now.

ECU codes are clear (showing 55), I've got spark, and fuel (both in the chamber and logic probe off the injector clips)... yet I'm unable to get her started.

I've tried swapping the timing 180 degree, both by rotating the wires off the cap and pulling & rotating the distributor.

The plugs are quite dark & wet and when I turn the engine w/o plugs a visible mist of gas is fired out (injector clips are pulled).

I'm suspecting it's the Fuel Pressure Regulator and have ordered a new one. The only other idea is that my new injectors are the eBay 4-hole aftermarket Stanza KA24e versions - supposedly compatible with the 240sx... Is it possible for an engine to not fire due to excessive fuel???

Fuel lines could be reversed but I am definitely getting fuel - and I don't think fuel can be forced backwards even through a faulty FPR.

Any other suggestions?
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'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project

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bertvorgon
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Post by bertvorgon » 07 May 2018 09:43

PM sent
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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duke
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Re: Here she continues to sit...

Post by duke » 09 May 2018 19:59

DADZSUN wrote:
07 May 2018 05:18

Any other suggestions?
Carburetors...

(Sorry, I had to.)
Duke Schimmer

'72 2-Door 510
"Simplify and add lightness."

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DADZSUN
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Post by DADZSUN » 10 May 2018 08:33

Lol, really eh?
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project

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DADZSUN
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She's alive - glitches trying to post are driving me nuts!

Post by DADZSUN » 28 May 2018 21:23

The car is finally up and running, and wow does it go well! Torque everywhere!?!? The engine is so smooth and quiet. So strange to reach in the driver's window from outside and just turn the key to start the car LOL.

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Problem(s) solved:
1) Timing off the oil pump drive was waayyyy off
2) External coil won't fire when rested/grounded on the bodywork
3) When Can Am wiring calls for leads off the ECU, the original sensors they were destined for still need that power (MAFS & Distributor) :lol:

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Now that the car is running I can focus on cleaning up the mess. Specifically, the intake plumbing, rad plumbing, wiring.

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I'm also working on a universal relay/fuse box for the lighting, rad fan, horn, starter.
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Intake track is now complete. The ugly hole I cut into the inner well will be cleaned up. :wink:
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I built a quick shield to protect the filter from debris off the front tire.

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The whole shield/filter/MAFS all 'float' off a rubber mount to allow for engine movement & vibrations.
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Despite all my precautions, I was only stranded once. When the 300A breaker I installed on the hot line from the rear-mount batter decided to crap out. Thankfully I was close enough to home to get stuff to bypass it.
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Attachments
Intake_1.jpg
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Stranded.jpg
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Messy.jpg
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IntakeShield.jpg
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'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project

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DADZSUN
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Quick update

Post by DADZSUN » 04 Jun 2018 04:31

I had a nice weekend with my pup & MTB in the 510.
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I'm still having issues with my rear right wheel bearing. I've replaced it twice now and am nervous the bearing housing is compromised - the inner bearing pops out almost too easy. :shock: :?

I've ordered new bearings, locknut, and rotors. I'll try applying a layer of aluminum tape to the inner bearing race to take up what I fear is some slack.

Next up is stainless brake lines and installation of a brake booster (720 I believe?). While I'm at it, I'll install a Wilwood proportioner on the front line since the front brakes tend to lockup a little too early on the 100% 280zx brake system. Perhaps it was setup for a heavier engine up front than the 510?
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project

Three B's Racing
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Re: Quick update

Post by Three B's Racing » 04 Jun 2018 07:21

DADZSUN wrote:
04 Jun 2018 04:31
I had a nice weekend with my pup & MTB in the 510.

I'm still having issues with my rear right wheel bearing. I've replaced it twice now and am nervous the bearing housing is compromised - the inner bearing pops out almost too easy. :shock: :?

I've ordered new bearings, locknut, and rotors. I'll try applying a layer of aluminum tape to the inner bearing race to take up what I fear is some slack.

Next up is stainless brake lines and installation of a brake booster (720 I believe?). While I'm at it, I'll install a Wilwood proportioner on the front line since the front brakes tend to lockup a little too early on the 100% 280zx brake system. Perhaps it was setup for a heavier engine up front than the 510?
If it slides out of the swing arm easily? it's possible the bearings OD is incorrect. I'd measure the new bearing and the bearings housing make sure you have at least .0008/.001" interfearence fit or simply compare inner and outer housings ID. Make sure your spacer on the axle shaft is there and the bearing spacer "between the bearing " code A, B, or C is the same letter found on the swing arms bearing housing, they are supposed to be the same otherwise OUCH!!!
"Lastnight the wife said oh boy when your dead you can't take nothing with you but your soul oh "Think"
- John Lennon

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DADZSUN
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Re: Quick update

Post by DADZSUN » 04 Jun 2018 08:17

Thanks for the suggestions.
Three B's Racing wrote:
04 Jun 2018 07:21
If it slides out of the swing arm easily? it's possible the bearings OD is incorrect.
Easy enough that a light tap knocks it out - a far cry from the original process of bearing puller etc...

I don't think it's the OD sizing because I've sampled old bearings and they too now slide in easy.
Three B's Racing wrote:
04 Jun 2018 07:21
Make sure your spacer on the axle shaft is there and the bearing spacer "between the bearing " code A, B, or C is the same letter found on the swing arms bearing housing,
Not sure about the A/B/C part, but the spacer is in.
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project

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Byron510
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Post by Byron510 » 04 Jun 2018 10:30

Hopefully this can help you understand the spacer issue when it next comes apart. Likely it's the right one - unless you had more than one arm apart at the same time. But it's worth a verification since you are having issues.
Factory Manual RA7 Wheel Bearing Replacement.jpg
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Factory Manual RA9 Wheel Bearing Replacement.jpg
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This is out of the factory Nissan Chassis and Body manual. If you need more, let me know and I'll dig it up for you.

Byron
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because the opposite never works.

Three B's Racing
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Re: Quick update

Post by Three B's Racing » 05 Jun 2018 06:46

DADZSUN wrote:
04 Jun 2018 08:17
Thanks for the suggestions.
Three B's Racing wrote:
04 Jun 2018 07:21
If it slides out of the swing arm easily? it's possible the bearings OD is incorrect.
Easy enough that a light tap knocks it out - a far cry from the original process of bearing puller etc...

I don't think it's the OD sizing because I've sampled old bearings and they too now slide in easy.
Three B's Racing wrote:
04 Jun 2018 07:21
Make sure your spacer on the axle shaft is there and the bearing spacer "between the bearing " code A, B, or C is the same letter found on the swing arms bearing housing,
Not sure about the A/B/C part, but the spacer is in.
Light tap and it's out yikes!!! maybe you can get the bearing housing knurled at the bearing area at a machine shop. That would surely create a light press fit.
"Lastnight the wife said oh boy when your dead you can't take nothing with you but your soul oh "Think"
- John Lennon

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Byron510
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Post by Byron510 » 05 Jun 2018 07:26

You know, if it's a tap fit at all, it's enough to make sure the bearing is centered in the housing - which is all that's needed. When installed the bearing is torqued down against the shoulders on either side on the outer race, and the matching spacer (A,B,C) ensures that the inner races have the same torque against them, making both bearings a single rotating unit.
Looking at the surfaces that the bearing is pressed into, does there appear to be any fretting marks of any sort - indications that the bearing has tried to move either radially or axially?
Are one or both bearings effected by this on the arm you disassembled? Are on or both control arms effected by the same problem?
If you are concerned about the press fit, might I suggest a bearing shaft Loctite? It's great stuff, and meant for just this purpose. It would be tricky to apply as you have to have a surgically clean area where you are applying the Loctite, and bearing grease around the rest of the cavity, but it's doable.
I'm not sure that knurling can be done at all on an inside surface...
Lots of questions, I know.
Last solution, what is the availability of one (or both) LCA's in your area? Do we put your needed part on a bus across the continent for you? I know my stock of RH side arms is low, if I have any left at all. But in know people who know people :-) And I'm sure Robyn might jump in with an offer from his stash....
Byron
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because the opposite never works.

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RMS
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Post by RMS » 05 Jun 2018 08:40

oh jeez! the pile is getting pretty small.....
two_68_510s wrote:I guess our donkeys are quicker then your sled dogs!

Three B's Racing
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Post by Three B's Racing » 06 Jun 2018 04:51

Byron510 wrote:
05 Jun 2018 07:26
You know, if it's a tap fit at all, it's enough to make sure the bearing is centered in the housing - which is all that's needed. When installed the bearing is torqued down against the shoulders on either side on the outer race, and the matching spacer (A,B,C) ensures that the inner races have the same torque against them, making both bearings a single rotating unit.
Looking at the surfaces that the bearing is pressed into, does there appear to be any fretting marks of any sort - indications that the bearing has tried to move either radially or axially?
Are one or both bearings effected by this on the arm you disassembled? Are on or both control arms effected by the same problem?
If you are concerned about the press fit, might I suggest a bearing shaft Loctite? It's great stuff, and meant for just this purpose. It would be tricky to apply as you have to have a surgically clean area where you are applying the Loctite, and bearing grease around the rest of the cavity, but it's doable.
I'm not sure that knurling can be done at all on an inside surface...
Lots of questions, I know.
Last solution, what is the availability of one (or both) LCA's in your area? Do we put your needed part on a bus across the continent for you? I know my stock of RH side arms is low, if I have any left at all. But in know people who know people :-) And I'm sure Robyn might jump in with an offer from his stash....
Byron
Great points Byron, and the real question is why is he going through bearings so quickly? Granted the bearings are nicely held in place but the reason there's an engineered light press fit I'd imagine is to keep the OD of the bearing from rotating. But I'd imagine that is pretty unlikely but why is he going through bearings? Hmmm.

Have a great Canby you all and may the Sun God show up 8>)
"Lastnight the wife said oh boy when your dead you can't take nothing with you but your soul oh "Think"
- John Lennon

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andrew.lori
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Post by andrew.lori » 07 Jun 2018 07:27

Hey Fritz. Do you remember if the very first failed bearing had spun its possible you have had a loose fit from that point forward. Another note is to buy the best quality bearing you can. Some of the Chinese stuff can be pretty bad with both quality and dimension. Did you also confirm the spacer letter matches the arm?
1966 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A
1970 Datsun 510 KA24DE Street car
1970 Datsun 510 CASC Road Racer Sold)
1972 Datsun 510 SR Monster Sold it
1977 Datsun 200SX Sold :(
1973 Toyota Celica
1972 Triumph GT6 SCCA Vintage Race Car / Money Pit

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