Noobie's 510 project

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Three B's Racing
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby Three B's Racing » 04 Apr 2016 05:40

Nice job on the exhaust. I also built my own for my S14 SR20DE but I have a 12" resonator right where your first V-band is and the same Magnaflow resonator as you between your first and second V-band then a Walker Silent flow muffler out the back all 2.25". My exhaust is pretty loud still, how's yours sound with the KA?
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DADZSUN
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby DADZSUN » 05 Apr 2016 08:27

I haven't fired up the car since November so I have no idea on the volume. I'm hoping to find out this weekend though - if winter ever lets go of Eastern Ontario! Brrr!!!

My car was surprisingly quiet with the stock manifold, a 2" crush bend exhaust, and a multi chamber Magnaflow muffler - and was still reasonable when I temporarily replaced my blown muffler with a cheap resonator. I'm now running a slightly larger pipe with a better quality straight-through muffler. Hopefully it's not too loud because the routing is so tucked to the chassis that I don't know where I'd fit another resonator/muffler.

I'm surprised to read your car is still loud with what is effectively 4 muffling devices (turbo, 2 resonators, muffler).
'72 Datsun 510 - KA24E/R1 carbs/EDIS 4 Megajolt
'76 Datsun 280z

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Doraemon
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby Doraemon » 05 Apr 2016 09:19

Great welding job ! Please make a video ;)

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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby DADZSUN » 05 Apr 2016 15:22

Doraemon wrote:Great welding job ! Please make a video ;)


Thanks! As much as I like to think my welding's getting better it's not even 1/10th as nice as the artwork Duke & TrackJunkie are posting. :shock:

Yes, I will get a video of the idle, pull away, and drive-by once the car is up and running and sorted out. Hopefully sometime in the next month.
'72 Datsun 510 - KA24E/R1 carbs/EDIS 4 Megajolt
'76 Datsun 280z

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DADZSUN
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New fans

Postby DADZSUN » 05 Apr 2016 16:02

This past summer my mechanic buddy told me my fans were garbage. When they ran there was little power. I had to agree, I purchased them off eBay at the time and frankly didn't care how much power they had.

eBay_fans.jpg
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It was suggested to get a SPAL fan so after a bit of measuring I went with a medium profile 11" push fan.
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SPAL_2.jpg
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This fan is certainly heavier and more industrial looking. I also went with the (pricey!) metal attachment clips in lieu of the previous plastic ones which seemed to get bittle with the heat and break.
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It wasn't too hard to remove the old units and replace it with the new fan. Looks like a nice fit.
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Triggering the fan remains potentially an unsolved problem for me. I previously had a sensor directly feeding MegaJolt which would complete/ground the fan circuit when a predefined voltage/temp was reached. Now that coolant bung holds a sensor for my new Speedhut coolant gauge. I'm hoping I can splice into that new senor's signal and share it with the Megajolt coolant input line (ie: sharing one sensor with two devices). Since it's now a different sensor feeding values to MegaJolt, I need to map the voltage readings against the Speedhut temp gauge and plug that data into the MegaJolt software in order to correctly trigger the auxillary output for the fan. Not an easy solution but hopfully a clean one.

Here's some outstanding electrical work that's far from clean.
510_Electrical.jpg
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This is the last of my major items to tackle for this winter's project. I'm hoping to having it all wrapped up by the end of this weekend.

    I've got to complete the coolant and oil pressure gauge hook up

    Reconnect the original Innovate wideband gauge (will be hidden) so it can feed the new Speedhut A/F gauge. Not an elegant solution but required for now - all in the name of having matching Speedhut gauges. :roll:

    Wire the speedo GPS to a constant feed to retain GPS location (for quick starts - don't have to wait as long for the GPS to acquire signal)

    Calibrate the fuel gauge to the Datsun sender
'72 Datsun 510 - KA24E/R1 carbs/EDIS 4 Megajolt
'76 Datsun 280z

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okayfine
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby okayfine » 05 Apr 2016 18:57

KA should have two temp bungs in the neck, one for the dash gauge and one for the ECU.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby Three B's Racing » 06 Apr 2016 05:43

DADZSUN wrote:I haven't fired up the car since November so I have no idea on the volume. I'm hoping to find out this weekend though - if winter ever lets go of Eastern Ontario! Brrr!!!

My car was surprisingly quiet with the stock manifold, a 2" crush bend exhaust, and a multi chamber Magnaflow muffler - and was still reasonable when I temporarily replaced my blown muffler with a cheap resonator. I'm now running a slightly larger pipe with a better quality straight-through muffler. Hopefully it's not too loud because the routing is so tucked to the chassis that I don't know where I'd fit another resonator/muffler.

I'm surprised to read your car is still loud with what is effectively 4 muffling devices (turbo, 2 resonators, muffler).


I don't have a Turbo, it's a S14 SR20DE. It isn't very loud cruising around, it's when I start getting into the throttle and it just roars but much in the way anyone here would absolutely love the sound of. Freeway cruising 70mph @ 3300rpm isn't too bad just gota turn the tunes up more but then we don't build these for creature comforts, we build them for creature features...
"Lastnight the wife said oh boy when your dead you can't take nothing with you but your soul oh "Think"
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She awakens from a winter slumber

Postby DADZSUN » 17 Apr 2016 20:05

So... despite the million things I had to finalize & clean up on the car, I managed to fire her up (surprisingly easily) and even take her out for a spin this weekend. 8)

Before I could actually drive, I had to push Byron's brackets to full toe-out and max camber. Only then would the tires *barely* tuck under the stock bodywork (14x7 0ET rims on wide 195/60/14 Azenis). Give the limited clearance, this is likely close to my previous setting which was fine on the road, and kept things (ie: the rear) entertaining during autocross. :wink:

I had the dash and centre cluster hanging with tie-wraps during the drive, but the gauges were running which is nice. Sooo much more comforting to see actual coolant temps and oil pressure!

As for the fan calibration, I never bothered entering a new Speedhut coolant sensor voltage/temp table into Megajolt. I simply waited until I saw the Speedhut gauge register 200F, read what MegaJolt thought it saw (70), and triggered the Megajolt auxiliary switch to ground the fan circuit at that point. I also tested the fan's power, which was pretty effective after a minute for the coolant to circulate.

There's still lots to do before the car is 'driveable'. Besides putting the dash back together, the rear brakes need yet another bleed (2 pumps to get meaningful pressure !), and the carbs idle screws needs to richen quite a bit (18-20:1 on idle LOL - not a single ping though!).

Three B's Racing wrote:... all 2.25". My exhaust is pretty loud still, how's yours sound with the KA?


Pretty damn loud actually. It's not bad when cruising lightly, but hit the pedal and everyone will know - which is exactly what I don't want, drawing attention when I'm feeling 'sporting'. I've ordered a Flowmaster HP2 12" muffler/resonator which will take up the run from the 1/2 axle to the last bend prior to the current 'muffler'. This will obviously take the location of the 3rd v-band clamp, which means the system will be down to 2.

As a positive, in my short outings the power seemed a little stronger than I recall from mid range to top end, A/F numbers were a bit leaner as well. I figured it was just being 'new' to the car after a winter off, but it came to me afterwards that the exhaust may have actually helped a bit.

I'll record & post an idle/in-cabin/pull-away vid before and after the HP2 resonator is installed.
'72 Datsun 510 - KA24E/R1 carbs/EDIS 4 Megajolt
'76 Datsun 280z

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Byron510
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Re: She awakens from a winter slumber

Postby Byron510 » 17 Apr 2016 22:48

DADZSUN wrote:
Before I could actually drive, I had to push Byron's brackets to full toe-out and max camber.



Wowwwwhhh ....!

Adding camber to gain cleared everything I can see. You will gain more than the stock setting could have been but a little.
However the toe adjustment won't gain very much wheel clearance as a general rule. You can likely take the alignment out to zero toe and not affect your clearances much at all - if any! Toe out makes these cars really hairy! Getting rid of toe out was the biggest reason I designed these brackets.
Please be careful with the toe out condition at speed, it'll love to go sideways - but not always when you expect it to!

Time for either some clearancing or modifying offset?

Keep us posted.

Byron
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DADZSUN
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby DADZSUN » 18 Apr 2016 05:54

Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on with my car but I think there's a lot of default toe-in somewhere...

With your brackets at mid-toe setting the wheels were visibly toe-in causing the rear half of the tire to excessively flare out and physically touch the bodywork. At full toe out the wheels look fairly straight (eyeballing), I will eventually get a proper alignment done.

I think I have my alignment numbers from last year with the stock brackets which showed some toe-out but nothing excessive. It certainly didn't make the rear too unstable for my liking.
'72 Datsun 510 - KA24E/R1 carbs/EDIS 4 Megajolt
'76 Datsun 280z

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DADZSUN
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Latest news

Postby DADZSUN » 30 Apr 2016 16:09

So I've put a couple hundred KMs on the car the last couple of weeks. Slowly taking longer trips as my confidence builds that I didn't forget to tighten steering components or something.

A few issues still linger that don't prevent the car from being driven but need to be dealt with to really enjoy the experience.
    Soft brake
    Exhaust noise
    Hydraulic vavle ticking (still!!! :evil: )

Soft Brake
The brake is slowly getting firmer with each outing/bleed. It's such a PITA to remove the upside down caliper and squeeze in a brake-block to prevent piston movement that I'm willing to go with a less effective solution and bleed the caliper as-is after every couple of outings. The good news is that it is getting better.

Exhaust Noise
The muffler seemed to be bedding in and somewhat mellowing but it was still too loud. Based on reviews and dimensions, I decided to order the Flowmaster HP2.
FlowMasterHP2Exterior.jpg
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It's a pretty cool design with preforated cones - the two tips touching in the middle of the resonator.
FlowMasterHP2Interior.jpg
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As previously mentioned, I removed the 3rd connector and made it a single unit. It still installs relatively easily.
FlowMasterInstalled.jpg
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I managed to tuck it in pretty tight. Before:
ExhaustBefore.jpg
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After:
ExhaustAfter.jpg
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The end result is a MUCH quieter exhaust that still has a nice growl when I'm pushing it. I've recorded a video of the old exhaust and next week I'll record the new exhaust and post.

Hydraulic valve ticking
The other issue is with the hydraulic valve lifters - which is most disapointing because I spend a chunk of coin last summer replacing all of them. I'm starting to regret not going with solid lifters... I'll try and troubleshoot this first and see what I can do. When the car is not ticking, it runs sooo damn good! Perfect power/Tq for my needs. Then, somewhat randomly, the ticking appears and power loss can be felt. No oil pressure loss is seen, if anything it seems to happen sometimes when I brake and revs/pressure drops. If I stick to it, maybe do a highway 100+kph run, the ticking disappears.

As FYI, my Speedhut external oil pressure gauge is showing 60-70 psi on start-up, 20-25psi on cold idle, 10-12 psi on hot idle and about 50-60psi while cruising ~3K. Not really knowing if pressure is enough I looked into a high pressure pump. Thankfully, my research showed me that the KA24e D21 pickup already runs the larger pump. This information came courtesy of DazenMike on Ratsun http://community.ratsun.net/topic/36178-quick-oil-pump-question/?p=556242. Essentially, the easiest way to tell is for exposed rotors.
HighFlowOilPump.jpg
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While I already have a high-flow pump, I did notice that the gasket was toast - which would explain the small puddle after each drive. :wink: A quick RTV hack seemed to have boosted pressure 5-10psi but the fix was short lived and the puddle returns so I've ordered proper replacement Felpro gaskets. I'm also thinking of switching to a thicker oil as the ticking returns when the car is warm and during the random braking even. I'm currently on 10W30, maybe 10W40?

For now the car is good enough to enjoy. She's been rotated into regular bike hauling duty. :D
BikeHauler.jpg
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'72 Datsun 510 - KA24E/R1 carbs/EDIS 4 Megajolt
'76 Datsun 280z

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okayfine
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby okayfine » 30 Apr 2016 16:39

Okay, now we're going to need a bike pic!

And I have an oil pump gasket drawing up at The 510 Archives, if you happen to have gasket material. I once had some and needed a pump gasket, but didn't want to run to the store, just to have to order one anyway and have to drive back to pick it up.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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DADZSUN
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby DADZSUN » 30 Apr 2016 16:48

I entertained the idea of making a gasket out of the cork I have but wasn't sure if the thickness would impact the 4 bolt's ability to fasten the pump - and was too lazy to source longer bolts etc... I found the gaskets on RockAuto for $0.50 each.

I posted a bike/biking pics on General Discussion this week from my awesome outing to Vancouver viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28899#p252906
'72 Datsun 510 - KA24E/R1 carbs/EDIS 4 Megajolt
'76 Datsun 280z

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Solo2 outing

Postby DADZSUN » 23 May 2016 15:58

Despite a somewhat late start to the driving season I've already put over 1000km on my 510. I don't think I've ever put that much mileage in so early in the 'season'. I'm hoping to add another 4000-5000km if things so well.
510Posing.jpg
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With this extra seat time I've had the opportunity to really get to know the car. Mileage is shockingly bad (a hair under US 20mpg) but I'm sure my driving habits and hauling a big 'ol MTB off the back most of the time doesn't help. When the lifters are not acting up the car has a really nice power band. Speaking of lifters, I've changed the oil from 10w30 to 10w40 and that helped, as did a better gasket - but it's still not fully cured. I still get ticking after occasional braking or hard deceleration. I'm thinking of replacing the oil pump as well because I have no idea of it's age, I am seeing just under 10psi hot idle (750rpm) and around 50psi hot when cruising at 3000 RPM.

This past weekend I took the car out to Solo2. It was a somewhat emotional day because for years I've dreamed of my son being old enough to drive himself. Yesterday was that day...
SoloLot.jpg
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Motorsport Club of Ottawa (http://www.mco.org/wordpress/) is fortunate to have a pretty awesome lot at their disposal, the Ottawa Senators Arena lot 9. It was freshly repaved last year with smooth pavement and lots of undulations. Their first event had a solid 90 entrants.
MCO_Action_1.jpg
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I was actually pleasantly surprised how the car handled despite zero prep, a rear alignment that was slammed to full toe-in, and no front sway. I bumped the front Illumina shocks up to '2' and kept adding tire pressure until the Liquid Paper smeared on the sidewalls showed little roll (left my gauge at home).
MCO_Action_2.jpg
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My son did quite well all things considered, he's only had 6 outings on a manual transmission and has never push any car up until this point.
MCO_Action_4.jpg
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He had a couple moments where aggressive drop-throttle near the cornering limit caused the rear to step out HARD causing an impressive tank slapper. I was certain he'd loose it, as did the marshals at one station already crouching in preparation to run, but somehow he managed to save it. When he did stay smooth he did a good job getting the car to work well.
MCO_Action_5.jpg
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Still, he did learn about the dreaded understeer, turning too hard and too late to make a gate. Funny, I talked so much about how it feels to experience it, but only after this event did he say that he understood...
MCO_Action_9.jpg
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No idea where I finished. At one point I was top 20 overall (just under 4 season FTD) and 7th in B class. Regardless, my head wasn't in the competitive mode. Besides trying to show my son the ropes, the starter decided to quite (or did it? see next post) requiring a push-start each time, and the 4 year-old Azenis offered little of the grip I expected, especially after my run was so soon after my son's.

Still, I had a blast and will try to make all events this year. I've identified a few tweaks I can make to further improve the car's fun factor before the next event.
'72 Datsun 510 - KA24E/R1 carbs/EDIS 4 Megajolt
'76 Datsun 280z

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bertvorgon
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby bertvorgon » 23 May 2016 16:33

That is a LOT of body roll and the front tire is doing way too much work, need stiffer springs and or roll bar.
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