Noobie's 510 project

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Three B's Racing
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Re: Chasing my Tail...

Postby Three B's Racing » 18 Nov 2016 08:01

DADZSUN wrote:
Three B's Racing wrote: On the rear swing arms stamped on the outer housing between the bearings is a letter. That letter should be the same on the inner spacer sleeve that sits between the bearings. If they are not the same, that's an issue as they must match....


Hmmm, do you mean that the spacer between the bearings has a specific orientation? One side must always be facing out?

Three B's Racing wrote:... Did you torque the axle nut with an impact or just breaker bar it tight? Because that torque spec is very important and must be torqued to spec not "PFT" Pretty F'Kn Tight :lol:


The first bearings were tightened with an impact gun then backed off a hair to reduce the stiction. Subsequently, a wise local Datsun guru recommended I giver the whole nine yards, so on the current set I ran my Princess Auto Power Fist corded gun for a bit... ;-) Frankly I've got a proper torque wrench and should have gotten off my ass to confirm the specs and torqued properly.


No the spacer orentation doesn't matter. What matters is that the letter on the spacer matches the letter on the housing. Letters represent different spacer lengths and housing lenth tolerances. Holy Crap! your Guru recommended impact that sucker on there tight eyeah baby? i wouldn't let a mechanic like that change the air in my tires you kidding me? That nut takes I believe a requires 240ft lbs of torque and hitting it with an impact then backing it out a bit is like russian roulette with 3 rounds in the tumbler its 50/50.
"Lastnight the wife said oh boy when your dead you can't take nothing with you but your soul oh "Think"
- John Lennon

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DADZSUN
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Re: Chasing my Tail...

Postby DADZSUN » 20 Nov 2016 18:44

Three B's Racing wrote:... No the spacer orentation doesn't matter. What matters is that the letter on the spacer matches the letter on the housing. Letters represent different spacer lengths and housing lenth tolerances...


I'm still not completely following what you're saying. There's a letter on the spacer that matches the letter on the trailing arm's hub housing? Are there any pictures or suggestion where I can find this letter? Was Datsun's hub manufacturing tollerance so poor they had to subsequently measure and provide a matching spacer? Regardless, the spacer was alway kept with it's corresponding hub and worked fine all these years. I only originally replaced the bearings in hope of addressing a rear-end whine. Unfortunately it turned out it wasn't the rear bearings.

Three B's Racing wrote:... Holy Crap! your Guru recommended impact that sucker on there tight eyeah baby? i wouldn't let a mechanic like that change the air in my tires you kidding me? That nut takes I believe a requires 240ft lbs of torque and hitting it with an impact then backing it out a bit is like russian roulette with 3 rounds in the tumbler its 50/50.


Just to clarify, one the first bearing swap I backed out the nut on my own (w/o guru consultation) because the hub was quite stiff to rotate by hand.

One the second bearing swap it was then suggested to maintain full torque on the nut. I have full confidence in the guru, certainly more than my own skillset. :wink:
'72 Datsun 510 - original Ottawa car

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DADZSUN
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EFI conversion followed by boost?

Postby DADZSUN » 20 Nov 2016 20:13

It's that time of the year where I'm almost giddy to get started on this winter's project. I was originally supposed to keep things pretty minor as I'll be in France for 5 weeks this winter (2 separate trips) so I won't have a lot of time to wrench but the need for EFI has taken priority. The plan is to continue to mock everything up on the spare block until I'm sure all connectors are in place etc... That way the 510 is technically still 'driveable' should I experience any delays. As my past has shown (original attempt to install the KA24e), I'm perfectly fine backing out of a project to return to an old tried & true L20B setup so as to not compromise driving season.

I've got about a month to get a good kick at this before I travel so it's important to figure out what I've got, and what is missing. This weekend I removed the D21 intake system and intalled a used 240sx intake 'kit' I had purchased a couple of years ago.

WiringMockUp.jpg
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Unfortunately most of that 240sx kit I purchased was useless. At the time I didn't know exactly what was required so I hadn't carefully examined the contents of that Kijiji purchase - thankfully I only invested $75 at the time. I had purchased a 5 speed ECU but what I need is one from an automatic (to prevent RPM cut-off). The upper manifold is missing the Idle Air Control Valve (IACV), the Swirl Control Valve (SCV) solenoid, and a coolant sensor. The harness has several cut/missing connectors, and some of the connectors that remain are broken. After a bunch of internet tracking I've managed to source the parts which I'll document once they've arrived.

DifferentIntakeSwirlPlates.jpg
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My aim with the KA24e EFI conversion is to include the SCV functionality to improve cold starts and low RPM torque. Implementing SCV is easier said than done! Many 240sx owners pulled the butterflies out of the lower intake manifold to help airflow (minimal gains I've read) and the SCV solenoid was often tossed with the EGR gear at the back of the head. It's interesting to see how the D21 butterflies only block ~40% of the intake track whereas the 240sx is close to 90%.

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Continuing with that interesting theme, the D21 side feed setup required changes to the intake port, being much wider/hollowed out than the top feed. Clearly the side feed injectors have a wider spray pattern. Also as FYI, the D21 has a different timing cover in the dizzy mounting area (different bolt pattern and shape).

TurboMockUp.jpg
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I'm hoping the EFI conversion will not only help with cold starts but also with low RPM efficiency/power. With that improvement I'd also like to add a little power to supplement the mid & top end. Once EFI is running perfectly I hope to install a turbo to the equation. Installation should be fairly straightforward - once again mocking everything up on the spare block in advance. My plan is to run a S14 T28 (lent by Andrew - thanks!) with a non-intercooled charge fed directly to the intake. Boost will be restricted to 5psi and fuel enrichment will be done by FMU to hopefully provide an extra 30-50 hp/Tq. Another goal is for the mounting & installation to be very tidy.

This setup will provide me with that little bit of power I seek while having a minimal impact to the existing setup (2.25" exhaust, R160 CLSD etc...) and my wallet. As the pieces are introduced I'll provide a little more background to the logic.

Should be fun - it's nice to be tinkering again!
'72 Datsun 510 - original Ottawa car

Three B's Racing
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Re: Chasing my Tail...

Postby Three B's Racing » 21 Nov 2016 09:30

Directly from the manual.

NOTE: When it is neccessary to fit a new suspension arm, ensure that a corresponding coded bearing spacer is fitted, e.g, should the suspension arm hub be marked "B" then the bearing spacer must also be marked "B".
In no circumstances should a dissimilar spacer and suspension arm be fitted as a critical clearance of 0.05mm (0.002") exists between the bearing spacer and the bearing.

That nut should also be torqued to 239 ft/lb.
"Lastnight the wife said oh boy when your dead you can't take nothing with you but your soul oh "Think"
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traitorjacknif
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby traitorjacknif » 15 Dec 2016 13:08

Are you selling the megajolt?

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DADZSUN
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Project EFI update

Postby DADZSUN » 16 Dec 2016 06:38

traitorjacknif wrote:Are you selling the megajolt?
That's the eventual plan, IF I can get the stock 240sx EFI system to work properly. Otherwise as a plan 'B' I'll be using the crank/timing wheel and sensor for a MegaSquirt setup.


With regards to my EFI project, I'm plugging along. Many of the easy parts have been acquired and in several cases I have a spare backup. For some parts (o2 sensor & injectors), I ignored my spares and went with refurbished/upgrade for improved performance.
EFIGoodies.jpg
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Some of the parts I thought I acquired have been damaged in shipping due to poor packaging. :?

BrokenReplacementIACV.jpg
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Despite IACVs being difficult to find - especially for an engine/EFI setup which was only in production for 2 years, I fortunately have a backup.
OneGoodIACV.jpg
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Same shipment also broke the one of the coolant sensors I needed.
BrokenReplacementCoolant.jpg
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In that case my spare intake system doesn't have a replacement, and frankly haven't yet established what it's even for. I've also got to figure how I'm going to install a coolant sensor for my Speedhut gauge AND one for the painless electric fans.
CoolantSensors.jpg
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Finally a 3rd item on this same shipment (yes, I'm getting a refund) had a broken SCV solenoid. I'm wondering if I can use the EGR solenoid beside it instead.
BrokenSCVSolenoid.jpg
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Worse case I can try to use the D21's SVC solenoid but I would have to wiring in it's connector as it's different that the 240sx's.
D21_SCV_Solenoid.jpg
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I haven't been able to source a complete wiring harness so I'll likely work with the one I've got (some connectors were cut off) and graft in D21 connectors where required. Of course that means unwrapping everything and tracing the wires from the ECU. In a sick sort of way I'm looking forward to that and cleaning/shortening as required.
WiringHarness.jpg
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I can honestly see this project going into next spring/summer. My car is completely driveable at this point in time so there's no urgent need to get this done - especially in a garage that's -20 at the moment.
'72 Datsun 510 - original Ottawa car

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andrew.lori
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby andrew.lori » 17 Dec 2016 18:32

That IACV looks just like the SR20 IACV
1966 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A
1970 Datsun 510 CASC Road Racer ( to be restored )
1972 Datsun 510 SR Monster Sold it
1977 Datsun 200SX
1973 Toyota Celica
1972 Triumph GT6 SCCA Vintage Race Car / Money Pit
1972 Mazda 808 ... 39k original Miles

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DADZSUN
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Winter update

Postby DADZSUN » 12 Jan 2017 09:04

Back home from my first stint in France I headed over the border to pick up some goodies.

My 510 was rear ended earlier this fall. There wasn't major damage but the bumper/brackets were done and the tail light panel needed some 'persuasion' to look somewhat decent. All these part were going to get replaced anyways when I repaint the car next winter so it was no biggie.

FutoFab_Bumpers.jpg
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Dave's new bumpers look great. Can't wait to mount them later this winter.

Another_Harness.jpg
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I also managed to source a complete KA24e wiring harness, a SCV solenoid, and a backup IACV - all for a great price. Combing National Craiglist has it's advantages sometimes.

Coolant_Sensor.jpg
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The broken coolant sensor I mentioned in my previous post has been replaced.

I think I'm close to having everything in place. I've yet to examine the fuel tank and see how I'll plumb the return line. I'll also need at least one (reducer) silicone hose & clamps for the intake pipe to throttle body.
'72 Datsun 510 - original Ottawa car

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DADZSUN
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Winter update - little to update

Postby DADZSUN » 24 Feb 2017 01:03

I haven't made a lot of progress on the 510 this winter. I picked up a 2005 Volvo V50 project for my son (http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29570) which will keep me occupied until the end of March. It will also keep him out of my Datsun so I can enjoy more seat time this coming season. :wink:

I'm not too alarmed with the lack of progress on the EFI conversion. The car sits perfectly functional with the R1 carbs, and is run for 5-10 minutes every few weeks. As I don't believe in lengthy downtime for the 510, the current system will not get pulled until the second EFI system is as ready as I can make it.

I received a second complete wiring harness and it appears to be perfect. It's been stripped down and ready for tracing & removal of non-essential.

T25_1.jpg
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I also picked up a used SR20DET T25 for $60. All the oil/coolant/intake/exhaust bits are there which will save a bit of money going forward. There's minimal shaft play but with journal rebuilds being so cheap I might go ahead and rebuild anyways. Of course, none of this will be installed until the EFI system is in place and running flawlessly (mid-summer soonest IMO).

T25_2.jpg
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I was a little concerned my 2.25" exhaust I fabbed last summer might be too small. It was nice to see the ID of the turbo's 'J' pipe to be around the same size. With only 4-5psi and 200-220hp as the goal I don't think I'm in danger of being too small. Being a KA, I also don't really wind it out which further reduces the need for exhaust flow. Finally, the lack of a cat should help with reduced back pressure.
'72 Datsun 510 - original Ottawa car

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okayfine
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby okayfine » 25 Feb 2017 06:42

With my KA/DE and a 2.25" exhaust, I found the engine wrapped to redline smartly. Always surprised people who hadn't ridden in a KA510 and always heard the "it's a truck motor" line. A 220HP KA510 would be VERY enjoyable.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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DADZSUN
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A real update - no Fools'ing!

Postby DADZSUN » 01 Apr 2017 18:15

So it's been awhile since I've last enjoyed a few hours working on the 510. Project V50 has stalled out while I get the engine issues sorted so I anxiously moved over the other side of the garage. Weather forecast calls for +10 the next 2 days and I want my 510 on the road!

NewGPSSpeedo.jpg
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First up was reinstalling the warrantied Speedhut GPS speedometer. Last season it crapped out twice while driving, only to work fine again after a re-start. It must have been a known issue as they sent a new GPS receiver and connector. Speedhut was also kind enough to calibrate my fuel gauge to the Datsun resistance readings.

Not sure if I mentioned it but late last year my son was driving the 510 and was hit from behind leaving a gas station. Thankfully he wasn't injured and the damage was fairly minimal. The rear bumper and mounts were toast, the rear valence and tail light panel took a bit of a knock as well. Thankfully the frame rails appear to be fine - surprising given how tiny they are!

RearValenceDriver.jpg
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When I removed the old bumper I had a chance to see just how bad the rot/age was on the rear valence.

RearValencePassenger.jpg
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This side clearly had a piece replaced in the past.

Futofab_68-73_Datsun_510_Rear_Valance_1.jpg
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I was about to fab up a piece when I remembered that Dave sells new rear valences. This appears to be a fairly easy project for me to ease into body work as I look to repaint down the road. The corner of the driver tail light panel and quarter panel both have a couple of little spots that need attention as well. The part was ordered and hopefully I'll be able to do all of it over the May long weekend or something.

ShinyRearBumper.jpg
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In the meantime I'll run as-is, and so I installed my new Futofab rear bumper. SHINY!

ShinyFrontBumper.jpg
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Same for the front. They almost look out of place with the tattered paint.

That's it for now. Given my mantra of no downtime during driving season I think I'll push project EFI until next winter. I plan to invest into a proper 24/7 heating system, as well as comprehensive lighting and higher/stronger jacks to make winter work in the garage more pleasant.
'72 Datsun 510 - original Ottawa car

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okayfine
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby okayfine » 02 Apr 2017 19:15

If you could take some pictures of the valence R&R, that would be very cool. We're lucky to have Dave's stuff available.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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DADZSUN
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby DADZSUN » 03 Apr 2017 06:26

Will do, and I agree that we are lucky!

This rear valence mini project has me excited for other small body work jobs I can do this driving season w/o the car having to be down for long. I still plan to paint this winter so the more body work I can complete during the summer the better.

My goal is to change the car in a few ways so that it looks a little cleaner (in my eyes) and different to knowledgeable 510 owners, but still stock to the casual observer. This will involve shavings some bits and reworking the rear arches (not flaring, just raising to better match the front arch height).

I'll start by shaving the licence plate lights on the rear tail light panel. Since my panel is already beaten pretty good any mistakes will be no biggie as I can get an already-shaved replacement from Futofab worst case scenario. I would do one item at a time per weekend and then a quick spray of Datsun 022 as a temp fix to keep her on the road. This winter I plan to strip all the paint (flaking in areas) and finished the final body work etc...

I played with an older photo to give me an idea of how some of the shaving would look.
Shaved_1.jpg
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I washed the car yesterday and managed to get her out for a bit. She's had a fair bit more torque than I remember and compared to my DDs!
Washed.jpg
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'72 Datsun 510 - original Ottawa car


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