Noobie's 510 project

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DADZSUN
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Trunk Drops

Postby DADZSUN » 22 May 2017 17:05

I knew this 'slightly larger' project could grow in scope but even I was a little surprised at how much time this took.

A quick recap: I decided to replace the rear valence a couple of weeks ago. Once that was out of the way I decided to fix the PO's riveted trunk pan, which then included replacing the PO's trunk drops.

Futofab's new trunk drops, like the rear valence were nice quality pieces.
TrunkDrops.jpg
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With this 3 day long weekend pretty much open for me to work exclusively on the car, I punched in close to 20 hours trying to get this project wrapped up. The bad new is that it's not done, the good news is that I've gone as deep as I need to go and am finally seeing the end - hopefully this coming weekend. Also, the good news is that I shouldn't have to go back there in my lifetime.

Pulling back the PO's patched-up trunk drops there was a LOT of rust from the trapped OEM metal which was never treated or removed.
TrunkDrop_PassengerOld.jpg
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It took lots of time to properly clean out and establish where/if there was good metal for the new trunk drops to fasten to. The driver's side was almost exclusively fiberglass.
TrunkDrop_DriverOld.jpg
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I also had to rebuild both of the lower inner wheel arches so that the new trunk drops had solid metal to fasten to. This chewed up a lot of time with multiple test fitments then grinding/hammering and re-testing. It didn't help that my lower quarter panels were not identical. The passenger side was a good cm deeper which necessitated the modification of the new trunk drop lower flange.

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Eventually both lower wheel arches were rebuilt and overlap nicely with the new trunk drops.

DriverDone.jpg
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Everything was seam sealed then coated with POR15.

PassengerDone.jpg
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While I was at it I addressed a couple of spots where metal had to be cut out and replaced.

LowerQuarterReplaced.jpg
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Slowly I'm getting better with my welding which means I save more time.

LowerQuarterWelded.jpg
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Once this coat of POR15 is dry, I can fasten the trunk drops, cut & weld up pieces of floor pan, installed the rear valence, cut & fit the bumper brackets for a tighter fit, then done!
'72 Datsun 510 - KA24E/R1 carbs/EDIS 4 Megajolt
'76 Datsun 280z

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DADZSUN
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Done!

Postby DADZSUN » 29 May 2017 05:30

After wayyy too many hours I finally wrapped up my trunk drop/pan & rear valence replacement. The finish, and frankly the surrounding panels, are not perfect but good enough for now. I hope to clean everything up further when I approach body paint down the road.
RearValenceComplete.jpg
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I learned a lot, and realised that I made a few too many assumptions in terms of fit, available metal to use, and the extent of the PO's past 'work'. Regardless I persevered and am quite please with the final result.
DriverSideDone.jpg
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In the end I made everything 'fit' and seam sealed & POR15'd all exposed panels for a hopeful long service life. No more secrets hiding under riveted panels, that's the last of the rust that I could find on this entire car. :D Those holes you see on the trunk pan are for the bike hitch which wasn't mounted for these pics.
PassengerSideDone.jpg
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The project fought me right to the end, even after the wheels were back on, paint was dry, and all I had left to mount was the back half of the exhaust (those v-band clamps have paid themselves off 100x already) did I realise that the new rear valence with a proper sized exhaust hole was now a damn tight fit for my oval tip...
ExhaustTipTightFit.jpg
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I managed to adjust things so that it only rattles a bit on hard load, I'll revisit this over the winter when the car will be further worked on.

This is by no means the end of my plans for the 510, but for now I'll turn 100% of my summer's focus towards my new 280z project (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29692) where I'll undoubtedly continue to further improve my welding skills...
Last edited by DADZSUN on 29 May 2017 07:35, edited 1 time in total.
'72 Datsun 510 - KA24E/R1 carbs/EDIS 4 Megajolt
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby Byron510 » 29 May 2017 06:47

I know that when I did this area on the Bronze restoration back in the early 2000's, I spent a lot of time Savin true rear valence panel. Trunk drops were not available at the time, and I made my own 16 gauge outer lower quarter patch panels which was no easy task. My rear valence panel wasn't rusty as much as it was simply bent up. I spent hours trying to massage that lower lip at the bottom of the panel back into shape, it wasn't an easy task. So I feel for the work you've completed - great job and knowing there are no more soft spots on the car is piece of mind.

Look forward to updates on the Z project.

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Small updates

Postby DADZSUN » 05 Jun 2017 06:53

The 510 has been running steady since finishing the rear repairs. After seeing how tight the muffler tip was to the new rear valence I'm happy to hear that the exhaust only rattles a little on start-up idle and hard pulls, so it's livable until I address it this winter.

510_June_2017_2.jpg
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My son has been taking the 510 out to evening shows throughout Ottawa. Some nice pics.

510_June_2017.jpg
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I got the car appraised this week - still waiting to see the value. It was originally pegged at $5K when I first purchased but with the entire car being address (aside from paint), it was time to get re-apparised so I'm a little less exposed in case something happens. :? With this process I'm reminded to re-assess my medium & long terms goals with this machine. It's a blast to drive, and frankly plenty of power to entertain me. With EFI conversion already purchased and ready to install the civility will get even that much better. Maybe I should be done with major changes and only progess with on-going smaller refinement projects?

Having said that, I'm quite curious about the thought of slightly enlarging and raising the rear arch. This would address what I (understanding I'm part of a vast minority here) is an aesthetic flaw to the car, especially when dropped, and to provide a little more clearance for wider (205) and/or less agressive rear camber with my 14x7 et0 195/60R14 Azenis.

S30_Arch_1.jpg
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So I couldn't help but see how my Project 280z replacement $40 rear arches would look on the 510.

S30_Arch_2.jpg
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A good 2" would have to be cut out of the centre of the arch to bring the leading & trailing edges closer. Eyeballing the flare, it's subtle which is exactly what I'm looking for.

S30_Arch_3.jpg
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I understand this is a risky task for my relative lack of experience, and a crap-load of work to do properly. Frankly, the ROI (both in time and actual value) is poor but it would address my remaining major change to this car.

Either way, I'll use the 280z to further build my skills before attempting this. I might be sick and tired of panel welding when the 280z is done - or only discovering how much I love to body work (so far I've been leaning that way).
'72 Datsun 510 - KA24E/R1 carbs/EDIS 4 Megajolt
'76 Datsun 280z

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New jets

Postby DADZSUN » 20 Jun 2017 11:07

When driving the car 7/10ths and below it's been quite good this summer. At WOT, especially above 4000 RPM fueling slowly swings into an excessively lean condition (16-17:1). I'm thinking the 2.25" exhaust I installed last year is likely responsible for the change in A/F (as per Innovate WBO2). Shockingly the motor has had zero audible ping, just a noticeable decrease in power when super-lean.

230_DGV_Main_Jets.jpg
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While EFI conversion is planned for this winter, I figured I'd cough up the $25 for larger jets to at least enjoy Solo2 this summer w/o and concerns of engine damage. The '99 R1 carb main jets are actually the same as Weber DGV jets, so it's just a matter of locating a larger size from the current #210 (2.1mm I recon) to #230.

210Left_230Right.jpg
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The jets were sourced on eBay from a vendor in Prague (item 291351928317) and came quickly.

PulledFloatBowls.jpg
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The swapping of jets is actually pretty fast. The tedious task is draining the float bowls, disconnecting the throttle & 'choke' cables, then unthreading the VERY strip-prone screws to expose the carb internals.

New230Left_Old210Right.jpg
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Now is a good time to show off the balance tube I installed for the Megajolt MAP sensor.

BalanceTube.jpg
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With everything buttoned up I was surprised to see the larger jets impact the idle richness. I was under the impression that this circuit was exclusive to the pilot jets which were unchanged. Idle was now a good 2-3 point richer and I had to screw in the pilot adjustment screw from 4.25 out to 3.5 out (and frankly it could go another .25-.5 turn in).

Mid/cruising circuit is also richer as expected, cruising is now at ~13:1 in hot ~30deg C muggy weather. A simple needle adjustment can fix that once I confirm the richness is present in cooler temps.

Best part is WOT stays dead flat at 13.25. I'm now pushing the engine right up to 6000+ RPM w/o concern. Mid-range power is not quite punchy but I'm hoping I can alter timing a bit to bring that back.
TimeForARip.jpg
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'72 Datsun 510 - KA24E/R1 carbs/EDIS 4 Megajolt
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greenthumb
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby greenthumb » 20 Jun 2017 12:45

love your project! Nice work on the repairs. What in your eyes is the aesthetic problem with the wheel openings? Personal taste is subjective of course, but I love yours as is ;-)

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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby Byron510 » 20 Jun 2017 15:23

I like the carb set up. Webber jet match is a nice touch!
Balance tube is exactly as I'd done with my IR set up with SDS V1 on the Bronze. I tucked mine under the fuel rail. It's still there even though decommissioned - no body sees it :-)

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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby DADZSUN » 21 Jun 2017 05:14

greenthumb wrote:What in your eyes is the aesthetic problem with the wheel openings? Personal taste is subjective of course, but I love yours as is ;-)


My only issue with the rear arch is how it sits lower than the front arch. When the car is lowered & level (ie: rocker panel parallel to the ground) the rear wheel is partially tucked while the front wheel is fully exposed. To me it creates the illusion that there's 150lbs of weight in the trunk and the rear is sagging (remember those mid-late 5.0 Mustangs with body kits aka 'ass draggers?'). I just wish the profile was a little more symmetrical with regards to wheel exposure... I know the lowered rear arch is a style common with many manufacturers, (E30 BMW and 560sl Mercedes come to mind), so it obviously appeals to the general public.

Having said that, I'm very pleased with how the car looks/sits and will very likely remain unaltered. My arch issue is kind of like discovering orange peel - you can't help but see it once your eyes know what to look for, but it's a common part of car lifestyle and frankly it's the same machine you fell in love with before that discovery. ;-)
Last edited by DADZSUN on 21 Jun 2017 05:24, edited 1 time in total.
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'76 Datsun 280z

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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby DADZSUN » 21 Jun 2017 05:22

Byron510 wrote:I like the carb set up.


Honestly I'm having second thoughts about pulling the carbs. It's a unique/Frankenstein setup that somewhat miraculously works just about perfect. It's only during cold starts that I sometime lack the patience to wait for 1-2 min for warm up. This setup is not something you can just jump in a drive off - unless the car has been previously run in the last hour or so. Maybe that's a common theme for most carbed equipped 510s?

Project 280z with OEM EFI might satisfy my need for a Datsun I can 'just jump in and drive off' (DD duty), which means the carbs might very well stay on the 510.
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby Byron510 » 21 Jun 2017 05:48

My SDS EFI set up lacks an idle control valve or stepper motor to control a cold start cycle. So I his means that I also have to warm it up.

I have purchased their upgrade kit to solve this issue, but have yet to instal it. So for now it needs the manual warm up cycle no different that it did when it had the twin Mikuni's :-)

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Out for a cruise

Postby DADZSUN » 26 Jun 2017 05:15

Ah, so my carb experience isn't really any different than other 510 owners then. Thanks for the info Byron.

BeausBrewery.jpg
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I've got to say, this is just about the best time of the year for 510 cruising and enjoying those carbs. I took my furthest drive to date in the 510 this past weekend, all the way to the outskirts of Montreal and back to pickup a manual pedal assembly for project 280z. Just under 400km day-trip which to many may not be a lot, but for me it's a major (albeit somewhat unwarranted) confidence builder in the car's reliability etc....

BeausBrewery_2.jpg
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On the way back I stopped by my favorite Brewery (beaus.ca) for lunch on the patio. My youngest son came for the drive, weather was great and the car purred the whole way . Awesome day and exactly what I once dreamed about doing when I picked up this car nearly 6 years ago.

I lowered the needles a bit to plug up that bigger jet and got a nice 14.5-15 A/F while cruising, averaged 24.83 US MPG @ 118kph for 90min trip out! I will still try advancing the ignition 2-3 degrees to see what I can get, but other than that she's running great and pulls strong!

NewAzenis.jpg
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Finally decided to swap out the original Azenis I mounted 4 years ago (~20,000km?). There's still a bit of thread left but with my son taking the car to shows, I want as little excuses as possible for cops to pull him over.
'72 Datsun 510 - KA24E/R1 carbs/EDIS 4 Megajolt
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LED brake bulbs and Instagram'ing

Postby DADZSUN » 22 Aug 2017 11:46

Quick update on my 510. In the Ottawa valley we've had an insane amount of rain and overall shit weather "summer". So far I've only managed to get about 4000km on the 510. Besides that, it's running well.

I was recently in BC and decided to pick up a set of Keith's (aka Bertvorgon) LED brake bulbs (http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=29992). As promised, these were plug & play.

Old-N-New.jpg
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The most obvious difference is how quickly the LEDs light up compared to the OEM setup - damn near 1 second quicker??? It was pretty shocking to see. :shock: The improved reaction time & resulting safety factor is easily worth his asking price IMO.

OldBottomWhite-NewTopRed.jpg
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The next difference is that the LED light itself fires up red vs the OEM white bulb which relies only on the OEM red tailight housing to give off the red color.

OldLeft-NewRight.jpg
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The last difference, and frankly the least obvious in daylight is increased brightness, maybe 20-25%? I'm sure the difference would be more substantial at night.

Overall it's a super upgrade and I can't wait for turn/reverse bulbs to become available.

RollingClassics_1.jpg
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This summer my son has been active in taking the 510 to car shows etc... Recently he bugged me to join Instagram to document the 280z project build and 510 pics.

A photographer from Houston Tx (@rollingclassics) was in town and reached out to take some pics. Below are my low-res pics of the layouts he chose. Once I get his high res copies I'll post them up here.

RollingClassics_2.jpg
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FIrst 2 pics were at Lansdown/Aberdeen Pavillion where the Ottawa Red Blacks CFL team plays.

RollingClassics_3.jpg
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Final pic was along the Rideau canal locks, right near Hog's Back.

This weekend I'm planning on taking the 510 to it's first Solo2 session of the year. I'll be understandably rusty but am looking forward to seeing how the new Azenis fare.
Last edited by DADZSUN on 22 Aug 2017 13:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby bertvorgon » 22 Aug 2017 13:19

Thanks for the review, I knew you would like them, photos do not do them justice either.

Once I wrap my brain around trying to get my flasher out and replace with an LED friendly one, I have spec'd out some 1156 bulbs to try. They will be white but that is in keeping anyhow with what was factory, just way brighter.
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Re: LED brake bulbs and Instagram'ing

Postby Three B's Racing » 23 Aug 2017 05:04

DADZSUN wrote:I was recently in BC and decided to pick up a set of Keith's (aka Bertvorgon) LED brake bulbs (http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=29992). As promised, these were plug & play.

The most obvious difference is how quickly the LEDs light up compared to the OEM setup - damn near 1 second quicker??? It was pretty shocking to see. :shock: The improved reaction time & resulting safety factor is easily worth his asking price IMO.


So your saying your brake lights took better than a second to come on once you depressed the brake peddle? sounds like an issue to me as I have never seen brake light delay. My brake lights are instant on, no delay and i have checked.
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Postby DADZSUN » 23 Aug 2017 05:21

Three B's Racing wrote:... My brake lights are instant on, no delay and i have checked.


I would have said the exact same thing a week ago before these new LEDs were installed. Everything worked fine and came on as expected. Whatever delay there previously was, it certainly wasn't noticeable.

With a staggered install there was a clear difference. The difference was a bit larger if there was >15 seconds between pedal applications, and a little less with smaller repeat applications. Regardless of the time spacing though, the LEDs fired off quicker in all situations.
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