Noobie's 510 project

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DADZSUN
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Brakes - continued

Post by DADZSUN » 23 May 2012 17:45

6) Getting the '83 280zx calipers to mount on the rear was probably the biggest PITA to this project, but lucky for you I’m going to tell you how to get it done easy! First, I started with the standard 200sx bracket kit but they were too short. Since these brackets were 2 piece, I simply had them taken apart and lengthened 1/4". Now the mounting height was perfect but the caliper's 'mounting ears' were too thick. A minute on the grinder and a few mm later (LOTS of material there still) and it was perfect. See pics below.
Attachments
BracketAdjustment1.JPG
200sx bracket was too short, need to cut and reweld 1'4" longer.
BracketAdjustment1.JPG (32.06 KiB) Viewed 2233 times
RearCalipersBracketsFinal.JPG
Note where the old weld was
RearCalipersBracketsFinal.JPG (113.24 KiB) Viewed 2233 times
BracketAdjustment.JPG
Now bracket is good height but caliper mounting tabs/ears are too long, shave 'em down!
BracketAdjustment.JPG (20.11 KiB) Viewed 2233 times
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project

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DADZSUN
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Brakes - Continued

Post by DADZSUN » 23 May 2012 17:49

7) There's mention of reversing the calipers on each side but frankly I don't see how the ebrake line will fit. Reversing the calipers will put the bleed screw on top which is ideal, but then the caliper's fork will be pointing up which means having to route the ebrake line up over the swing arm instead of it's current location (outlined in the pic below).
Personally I'm running the opposite with the calipers in their proper position and the fork down. Worse case scenario, if the pedal doesn't get hard after multiple bleeds (driving for a bit in between helps), then unbolt the caliper and swivel it up while keeping the line connected. See pic below.

This project isn't quite done. The ebrake line isn't complete but I'm hoping that will be soon. I figure I'm going to run the 280zx cable and cut/recrimp the line longer/shorter as required. I will report back.

So how do the brakes work?
• Good, not great, but the potential is there for sure and it's already better than the previous setup I had. I still need a bleed or two and frankly using cheap $25 pads (new) with 30 y/o rusty rotors doesn't offer that initial bite I like to feel.
• Next year I think I'm going to run fresh rotors and Carbotech AX6 pads. Personally I LOVED Axxis Ultimates in my Solo2 days but they don't appear to make 280zx compatible pads front and rear.
• Without a brake booster the pedal will be firm - but that's the fun part of driving a classic eh?
• The brake balance actually seems really good with perhaps the rear locking up just before the front.
Attachments
RearMountedLines.JPG
See the route the eBake calbe would have to run if rear calipers are reversed.
RearMountedLines.JPG (97.73 KiB) Viewed 2234 times
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project

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DADZSUN
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Hidden Hitch

Post by DADZSUN » 05 Jun 2012 06:35

Cycling is a HUGE passion of mine and since getting the 510, I've been dying to combine my two favorite passtimes.

I wanted a real hidden hitch and decided to put in the extra effort to get something that was secure and truely hidden.

The hitch is to only be used for cycling (and possibly hauling R compounds someday :wink:), so no wiring was installed and a max load of 120 pounds including the rack was the intent.
Attachments
Hitch1.JPG
Now you see it...
Hitch1.JPG (125.85 KiB) Viewed 2193 times
Hitch2.JPG
Now you don't...
Hitch2.JPG (111.91 KiB) Viewed 2193 times
Hitch3.JPG
No sign of a hitch. :-)
Hitch3.JPG (102.46 KiB) Viewed 2193 times
Last edited by DADZSUN on 05 Jun 2012 07:23, edited 5 times in total.
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project

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DADZSUN
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Hitch part deux

Post by DADZSUN » 05 Jun 2012 06:45

The plan was to run the rack's hitch into the truck by swiveling the licence plate up.

I had a local welding shop build a 'U' shaped hitch that would bolt in the truck and down through the frame rails. I use the two smaller 'u' cross sectioned sub plates that would cup the underside of the frame rail and distribute the load.

The welder also had to add a bar to my hitch to drop it back down to a reasonable height.

I used "Street Scene Equipment 950-61100" Flip-up frame and modified the mounting brackets to have a lower profile against the car.

With the new bracket/plate installed, I cut a 2.25"x2.25" hole behind the plate (painfull). :cry:

It took all of 5 minutes to bolt up and less than 30 seconds to install the hitch. Total weight of the mount (not the rack) and brackets/bolts is 28 pounds. It is now a SOLID mount. I now get to enjoy my 510 2-3 times more often now. :D

Sorry for the lousy quality pics, the lighting was creating havoc on my crappy camera.
Attachments
Hitch4.JPG
Hitch4.JPG (83.71 KiB) Viewed 2190 times
Hitch6.JPG
Hitch6.JPG (109.39 KiB) Viewed 2190 times
Hitch7.JPG
Hitch7.JPG (161.4 KiB) Viewed 2190 times
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project

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okayfine
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Post by okayfine » 05 Jun 2012 06:54

Nicely done. I think your fat-tire's tires are wider than the original 510's bias-plys :lol:
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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andrew.lori
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Post by andrew.lori » 05 Jun 2012 06:59

Nice Job :) ... Fritz was at my place on the weekend and showed me his Idea it actualy turned out better than I imagined I would bet a small utility trailer could be towed very safley .
1966 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A
1970 Datsun 510 CASC Road Racer Sold)
1972 Datsun 510 SR Monster Sold it
1977 Datsun 200SX Sold :(
1973 Toyota Celica
1972 Triumph GT6 SCCA Vintage Race Car / Money Pit

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DADZSUN
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Post by DADZSUN » 05 Jun 2012 07:21

... and a very worthwhile visit to your place Andrew!

You get credit for the frame rail implementation. I was going to simply bolt through the spare tire well and trunk floor.
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project

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bertvorgon
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Post by bertvorgon » 05 Jun 2012 07:39

If you make it out to B.C., we have some wicked XC trials out here..then of course there is the Whistler downhill. We give great tours.

Bunch of us 510 guys out here are mountain bikers.

I did a variation of that on my GTS, to take our two bikes.
Attachments
IMGP0580 (Small).JPG
IMGP0580 (Small).JPG (47.39 KiB) Viewed 2169 times
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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DADZSUN
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Post by DADZSUN » 05 Jun 2012 07:57

Funny you say that Bert - I'm landing in Vancouver next Friday and spending the weekend MTBing at Whistler.

I'm coming back into Vancouver on the Monday for work and staying until Wednesday night. Either the 18th or 19th after work is open for me if any of you guys are available - or even the weekend up at Whistler. I'll have a rental car and my bike with me.

If it's ok, my 12 y/o son will also be coming along. He's a damn good cyclist so I wouldn't worry too much about him keeping up. Attached is a picture of him from last fall. :-)
Attachments
Weekend.JPG
Weekend.JPG (124.93 KiB) Viewed 2167 times
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project

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bertvorgon
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Post by bertvorgon » 12 Jun 2012 13:05

Cool, looks like my son when he got into racing mountain bikes. I am just looking at my schedule now, Monday would work for me, thinking of just a local cross country ride at the watershed, if that would be ok with you.

I'm sure your son would be waiting for me. My son Matt would like to come also, we could just have a nice trail ride, we have lots of daylight now.

The watershed is in the corner of Delta.

http://www.corp.delta.bc.ca/assets/Park ... colour.pdf

I just rebuilt my bike, so am heading out tonight to make sure all is ok, get the new cables stretched out.

http://www.trailpeak.com/trail-Delta-Wa ... ouver-BC-6
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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Bike papa
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Post by Bike papa » 12 Jun 2012 14:21

Make sure your bike tire is not inline with the exhaust pipe, it looks a little close. The first time I carried my bike on my 510 the bike tire exploded as a result of overheating from the exhaust. Ruined The ride as well as the tire. Just a thought. But I really like the carrier. serious tires on the bike but way too big for the XC riding I do here in Vegas.
1971 Datsun 510 2 door
08 VW R32
69 BSA 650 Firebird Scrambler
Too Many Bicycles

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bertvorgon
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Post by bertvorgon » 12 Jun 2012 15:32

some Watershed pics.....some of the stunts have rotted over the lat few years, and the dirt jump guys have built some crazy stuff now, nothing I care to hurt myself on...ribs three times, shoulder(s)
Attachments
IMG_0403.JPG
IMG_0403.JPG (198.7 KiB) Viewed 2093 times
IMG_0408.JPG
IMG_0408.JPG (197.9 KiB) Viewed 2093 times
IMG_0405.JPG
IMG_0405.JPG (188.04 KiB) Viewed 2093 times
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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DADZSUN
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L20B install

Post by DADZSUN » 14 Oct 2012 19:16

Wow, its been June since I last updated. My bad :oops: - rest assured the 'Noobie' has been working on the 510 all summer.

I've recorded a little over 4,000km this season and have one TSD rally and 3 Autocross events under my belt (including a 3rd place in C class - coming from a former multiple A-class club and provincial champ it was a little humbling to be midpack fighting for scraps :cry: ). Eventually, I’ll be posting my Solo2 suspension setup/changes and reveal my thoughts as to how handling was impacted.

The plan for this winter is to install a KA24e, I won't get into the details just yet (which will be another posting), but over the Thanksgiving long weekend I decided to go ahead and install a rebuilt/never started L20B that came with the car. I figured I could run it for the next 4-6 weeks until I parked for the winter and get a good feel for the condition and characteristics of the 2.0L.

Lists
Before I got started, I made sure I had the bare minimum parts required for this relatively straightforward task:
  • 6 bolt flywheel and clutch/pressure plate (PP)of the same size. This can be either a 200mm, 225mm or even a 240mm flywheel/clutch/PP
  • L16 rear-sump oil pan and pickup tube (to be removed from the L16 currently in the car)
  • Gaskets and new accessories as required
As for tools, here’s a list of the items I used:
  • Engine hoist – try to get the adjustable fulcrum mount that allows you to control the engine’s tilt
  • Two engine stands, one for the L20B and one for the donor/L16
  • Pump jack, stands
  • Oil catch pans. Rags! Lights (love the Petzl headlamps).
  • Ratchets, screw drivers, rat-tail file, cordless impact gun, clutch alignment tool
I made a little checklist before getting started to make sure I knew exactly what I was in for. None of this stuff was really difficult (depends on the condition of your 510) but it can be tedious and definitely messy!
  • Mount L20b to stand, remove pan, water and oil pump
  • Disconnect battery, starter, alternator, distributor
  • Jack up car, put on stands
  • Drain oil, tranny fluid, coolant
  • Remove carbs, throttle/choke cable
  • Remove rad, shifter, disconnect speedo cable
  • Disconnect driveshaft, tranny mount
  • Unbolt exhaust manifold at the first flange about ½ way down the engine bay
  • Brace front of the driveshaft to chassis (so it won’t slam onto the ground when the engine/tranny is pulled
  • Remove hood
  • Hook-up engine hoist
  • Unbolt engine mounts and pull
  • Remove transmission and flywheel etc
  • Mount L16 engine to 2nd stand
  • Confirm TCD on L20B when pan is removed, ensure crank pulley marks are lined up
  • Swap oil pan/pickup tube, accessories (if required), spark plugs and exhaust manifold from L16
  • Apply gaskets
  • Re-jet carb
I pretty much went through my list w/o any issues. Personally, draining the fluids and not making a mess is my biggest issue. I originally didn’t even think of looking for a flange to split the exhaust manifold in two so I thought just unbolting the manifold at the head would be sufficient.
Noobie lesson #6 – Do not unbolt the manifold from the head (leaving the exhaust piping as a single unit) and expect to pull the motor w/o issues. The crankcase vent tube which is straddled by the upper manifold will get in the way. Instead, leave the top portion bolted to the head and unbolt the manifold ½ way down at the first flange.

Pulling the engine/tranny
When pulling the engine, I found the harness with a controllable fulcrum was VERY handy in pulling the engine/tranny as a single unit. I bolted the harness to a front and rear exhaust manifold stud and another unused bolt on the passenger side near the front & top of the block. It took a combination of manoeuvring the engine hoist, adjustable harness and lowering the front of the car to get it done.

After it’s out, remove the starter and tranny since you’ll likely be using that on the L20B. Personally I was going to be using the same clutch and PP (the plan is to only use this engine for a few weeks anyways) so I remove the PP, clutch and flywheel.

I also took the opportunity to slot the upper engine mounts (the ones that bolt to the block) ¼ to ½ inch. This will help with hood clearance when using the ¾” taller L20B block.
Noobie lesson #7 – Figure out which direction you need to slot the holes – BEFORE attacking them with zest. Surprisingly, engines do not float – so why did I start filing the holes upwards? Thankfully I caught myself a minute or two on the first hole.
Attachments
EnginePull.jpg
About 1 hour into the process.
EnginePull.jpg (212.61 KiB) Viewed 1951 times
EngineBayMess.jpg
Leaking oil pan gasket meant there were *pounds* of grime in the engine bay.
EngineBayMess.jpg (194.96 KiB) Viewed 1951 times
Transplant.jpg
Two engine stands really help this part of the swap.
Transplant.jpg (206.83 KiB) Viewed 1951 times
Last edited by DADZSUN on 14 Oct 2012 19:57, edited 5 times in total.
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project

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DADZSUN
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L20B install - Part Deux

Post by DADZSUN » 14 Oct 2012 19:24

Flywheel
Speaking of flywheel, as previously mentioned in my list of items to have ready, you can use one of three different sized flywheels/clutches.
Noobie lesson #8 – Although I figured this out a few months ago it’s worth noting here - different sized Nissan 6 bolt flywheel/clutches (ie: 200/225/240mm) refer to the friction surface on the flywheel and NOT the actual outer dimension (approx. 30cm).
See my pic below, on the left is a 240mm D21 KA/L flywheel and on the middle and right is a 200mm (middle is a L20B compatible 6-bolt and right is a 5 bolt). Naturally, the 240mm flywheel/clutch will have more clamping force than the 200mm, but it will also require a larger/heavier clutch and PP. Ironically, the 200 6-bolt flywheel was heavier than the 240mm KA example. Personally, I would install a lighter flywheel (KA24 225mm perhaps) if I were keeping this setup. It just makes the car that much more fun to control with the throttle (both accelerating and decelerating).

L16 oil pan and pickup tube
Having two engine stands made swapping parts much easier. While it was relatively easy work, it still took some time to clean parts and carefully swap the pan. My L16 had a leaking oil pan gasket and made a mess of the engine bay. After swapping the oil pickup tube, I took the time to carefully swap the pan to the L20B. I used black RTV bead on the block (scrapped and degreased) and on the oil pan. I let it sit for 15 min then carefully applied the Felpro cork gasket ($10 NAPA) and slowly hand tightened the oil pan bolts in a random order until all were fairly tight (using just the socket and an extender, no ratchet). I let the block sit like that for an hour and then used a ratchet for another ¾-1 turn.

Reinstall
Once the L20B is complete, I reconnected it to the engine hoist and then proceeded to mount the drivetrain stuff. Having a clutch guide pin is VERY handy so that the clutch is properly aligned when the PP is tightened. I also found it to be much easier to lower the block to the ground (supported with pieces of 2x4 and 4x4 around the edge of the oil pan) to mount the tranny. The Dogleg tranny is pretty damn light, but it’s still a PITA to hold up and try to slide that drive shaft into the clutch hole.
After that, I pretty much did the reverse of pulling the engine/tranny out. It was a PITA to slide the tranny back into the driveshaft yoke so eventually I just unbolted the back from the diff, slid the yoke in and re-bolted the rear.

I also found it quite difficult to connect the engine mounts. Eventually I did it by loosely connecting the passenger side first (less working room). Then I worked on the driver’s side, again with loose bolts except the front lower mount bolt was left off so that the lower mount could be swivelled/lowered to connect to the upper mount. I then used a light crowbar to force the lower mount to swivel back into place to connect the final lower mount bolt. All of this was done while the engine hoist held 95% of the weight.

One other change I made was swap jets on my R1 carbs. These carbs have been running amazing all summer. They offer great performance at any engine speed, fuel efficiency was about the same as my tired OEM Hitachi carb and they had zero synch issues, or dieseling. The 1.6mm DGV jets (ironic that a Mikuni carb uses Weber parts) were sized perfectly for my stock L16. The plugs were a beautiful light tan with a hint of rust tones. For the L20B, I’m using the suggested 1.8mm jets, (edit: after a few hours of driving, they are a shade lighter with more rust than coffee brown than the when on the L16). To swap the jets simply remove the bowl and replace the jet (see pic below).

Start-up
After triple checking the connections I added fluid. For engine oil I used Brad Penn break-in oil. This stuff is only supposed to be used for about 1 hr and then replaced. Their specialty is that they provide lots of zinc to help the flat-tappet cam break-in. Afterwards, I replaced the oil with Rotella 15w-40 diesel oil – again, to ensure there’s lots of zinc to keep the internals happy.

Check that the crank pulley notch is still at TDC and then line up the rotor so that it’s aligned to a plug. In my case, the wires needs to be swapped 180 degrees. There are ways to adjust the distributor (even pulling the oil pump drive) so that no changes are required, but it’s sooooo much easier to just swap wires. Remember, the rotor spins counter clockwise and the firing order is 1-3-4-2. ;-)
After the car fired up I played with the throttle for 15 minutes or so to get the temp up. I ended up having coolant leak on the upper gasket of the thermostat housing (carefully, those housing bolts snap real easy), thankfully Andrew came to the rescue with a replacement. I also developed a major coolant leak when the hose for the heat core popped off the block. That was my bad, the block’s piping is slightly smaller than the L16.

The drive
Wow, I was anticipating some improved performance, but there was a lot more torque than I expected. I’m not sure how the L20B was built but I was told there were some mild upgrades and I’m wondering if there’s perhaps ‘medium’ upgrades instead (although the W58 head doesn’t insinuate that).
The R1 carbs are MUCH louder now (in a good way) and I can actually hear them in the cabin for a change. I’ve very pleased that this engine which sat for 3+ years with open ports and all managed to run this well. After a couple of hours of driving I checked the compression and from 1-4 I got 210/185/197/213 psi.

I enjoyed the first couple of driving so much that I decided this was plenty of motor for me and shelved plans for the KA24e R1-carbed winter project. Weight balance is important for me and the extra net 75lbs on the nose (as per DQ engine swap article) over the L20B didn’t seem worth it.

However, after a few hours something became apparent. While the engine is great, that damn dogleg tranny really doesn’t do it any favours. For starters, the first gear is so short that it’s done in an instant with the L20B’s newfound power, secondly all that performance ‘gain’ is lost while I coast trying to perform the annoying up-over-up shift into second (my dogleg is real sticky forcing a left-jab before the ‘over’).

So within a few days of the swap I found myself shopping for a 280zx tranny and realised that it was going to cost me $250-300… about the same cash it will take to finish rebuilding my KA24e which happens to include a short D21 71c tranny already… see where I’m going with this? ;-)
Attachments
Flywheels.jpg
KA-D21 240mm 6 bolt flywheel on the left, 200mm 6 bolt in the middle, 200mm 5 bolt on right
Flywheels.jpg (204.02 KiB) Viewed 1949 times
CarbsRejetting.jpg
Swapping the 1.6mm jets for 1.8mm
CarbsRejetting.jpg (218.5 KiB) Viewed 1949 times
L20BGoingIn.jpg
Day 3, about 6 hours total into this project.
L20BGoingIn.jpg (179.67 KiB) Viewed 1949 times
'72 Datsun 510 - Orange w/Watanabes & KA24E
'76 Datsun 280z - Current rebuild project

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andrew.lori
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Re: Noobie's 510 project

Post by andrew.lori » 04 Mar 2013 15:22

Your Pan :)
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IMG_0807 (Medium).jpg
IMG_0807 (Medium).jpg (78.55 KiB) Viewed 1858 times
IMG_0806 (Medium).jpg
IMG_0806 (Medium).jpg (70.95 KiB) Viewed 1858 times
1966 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A
1970 Datsun 510 CASC Road Racer Sold)
1972 Datsun 510 SR Monster Sold it
1977 Datsun 200SX Sold :(
1973 Toyota Celica
1972 Triumph GT6 SCCA Vintage Race Car / Money Pit

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