Zombie 510 Experiment

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okayfine
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Re: Zombie 510 Resurrection

Postby okayfine » 14 Oct 2012 09:54

Perspectives on rust may differ between the coasts, but the actual repair work that's fixin' to happen doesn't change. If you have that kind of rust and you are set to repair it, you gotta repair it the same ways East or West.

If the OP has skills and such, then his initial "I know nossings!" act doesn't help anyone. The $10K figure cited above came from the OP. No one here, including myself, has said that the shell the OP displayed is NOT repairable. Some, including myself, have said that the OP, as self-described, shouldn't take on the job of saving that shell. Not only did he not cop to the experience necessary, he doesn't have the money to do so currently and would be far better off buying a clean runner for half of what he'd end up putting into the rust bucket. Or so he said. We can only operate on the story the OP provides.

Schulz+I+know+nothing.jpg
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Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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djfootball
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Re: Zombie 510 Resurrection

Postby djfootball » 15 Oct 2012 07:15

First of all thank you blueridgespeed for chiming in and I concur, everything he says is fact and I need to get your hoist back to you ASAP.

In reply to okfine,
I still know nothing. My engine is sitting on the stand and I go down to my garage every night and kinda turn the big starting wheel and ask my self. "HTF and I going to get this thing to fire?". Not to mention that i've stripped the shell of the dash and components in the engine bay and bought some air tools to start grinding down some areas of doubt only to find that my tiny air compressor is too small for the job i.e. sand blasting and grinding. lol. So please don't' think that I'm trying to confuse people here by saying "I know nothing" as I'm purely here for the help/advice and assistance.

Now, can we get to the help/advice and assistance part now?.

So I have not obtained a pressure gauge to test the compression of my engine due to the engine being the least of my concerns at the moment but I'd like to start gathering some info on exactly how i can get the thing started on my stand. I've attached the big toothed wheel that the starter turns but it seems like the starter is mount on the tranny case which will not fit on my stand. Is there any other way to turn the engine over without the starter? Maybe i'm going about this entirely wrong. Since my grinding tools were a complete failure, i'll have to pick up some brush attachments for my electric side grinder and in the mean time, i'll probably try and clean out the sludge from of the oil pan and maybe just tooth brush clean the exterior of the engine tonight.

oh, and everything that my brake lines are connected to will NOT break. And by that I mean that the fittings that the break lines are connected to feel like they're seized. I've spent a lot of time NOT stripping screws and bolts from this thing and I don't want to start here. I also don't want to cut them because I MAY need to reuse them? Should I just cut them and throw them away or can they be reused?

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James
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Re: Zombie 510 Resurrection

Postby James » 15 Oct 2012 07:36

There is a special tool that is very helpful for the BRAKE lines you are trying to BREAK free :wink: .

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Making new brake lines is no fun from what i've seen - so save them if at all possible. You are going to find that these old cars - especially ones that have been sitting outside for years, are going to have spend lots of un expected time loosening corroded fasteners. Get a few different types of penetrating lubricant and see what you like (lots o different opinions out there). Its a good idea to keep whatever you can - go slow and don't make a rash decision which you may regret later.
Finished is better than perfect......

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djfootball
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Re: Zombie 510 Resurrection

Postby djfootball » 15 Oct 2012 07:58

Thanks James great tip. So.. they're not reverse thread or anything like that. Any tips on cleaning the lines out? before storing them? Can i just pump bake fluid through them to "flush" them out? Right now I believe I've gotten them out with no kinks.

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okayfine
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Re: Zombie 510 Resurrection

Postby okayfine » 15 Oct 2012 08:34

djfootball wrote:I go down to my garage every night and kinda turn the big starting wheel and ask my self. "HTF and I going to get this thing to fire?".


Did you read the initial link I gave you in your Intro thread? The basics to get you started are in there, including the apparently not-emphasized-enough suggestion to obtain the "How To Keep Your Datsun Alive" service manual. And the planning of projects big (like this one) or small.

You're at the point where you're ready to start with your car and engine, but you have done no research to help you along. And, understand, posting questions here on The Realm isn't really research on your part, not at this stage. We can't turn your wrenches, and we can't transfer our basic mechanical knowledge to you over the tubes. If you don't have a passing familiarity with cars and their parts ("big toothed wheel") then you're going to have problems understanding what's posted here by others.

djfootball wrote:only to find that my tiny air compressor is too small for the job i.e. sand blasting and grinding. lol.


Again, a little work on your part goes a long way. You could have avoided this situation easily. All air tools will have a base CFM@air-pressure spec. Your compressor will have the same. For the tool to work with your compressor, your compressor has to (at least!) put out the tool's rated CFM/pressure. It's simple.

djfootball wrote:Now, can we get to the help/advice and assistance part now?.


Been doin' that from the start. :roll:

djfootball wrote:due to the engine being the least of my concerns at the moment but I'd like to start gathering some info on exactly how i can get the thing started on my stand.


You admit the engine is the least of your concerns, but are adamant that you spend time to see if it's any good. Of all the parts (including the car itself) you've posted pictures of, the engine is in the best shape of 'em all.

That said, if you're not going to deal with the basics (does it have compression), then all the other work you're going to attempt in order to try to fire it on the stand could very well be pointless. These are basic checks, and they are so for very plain reasons.

And, again, reading the "How To Keep Your Engine Alive" book through will transform your knowledge of the 510 and the engine specifically. If you do anything today, if you don't listen to anything else I post, find a copy of that book and read it through.

djfootball wrote:Is there any other way to turn the engine over without the starter?


Wrench on the crank pulley bolt?

djfootball wrote:oh, and everything that my brake lines are connected to will NOT break. And by that I mean that the fittings that the break lines are connected to feel like they're seized.


Given the condition of the car, they are quite likely seized. James pointed you to the correct flare nut wrench. In all likelihood those won't do it. I even bought a $32 Snap On 10mm flare nut wrench since I was spreading the tangs of the HF cheapos I had...and the Snap On would spread and not turn a couple of the brake line fittings I had. And my stuff was just OE-been-there-for-40-years, not been-there-for-40-years-and-rusted-beyond-belief.

Brake hard lines are not available new.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

HudsonMC
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Re: Zombie 510 Resurrection

Postby HudsonMC » 15 Oct 2012 08:50

djfootball wrote:So I have not obtained a pressure gauge to test the compression of my engine due to the engine being the least of my concerns at the moment but I'd like to start gathering some info on exactly how i can get the thing started on my stand. I've attached the big toothed wheel that the starter turns but it seems like the starter is mount on the tranny case which will not fit on my stand. Is there any other way to turn the engine over without the starter? Maybe i'm going about this entirely wrong. Since my grinding tools were a complete failure, i'll have to pick up some brush attachments for my electric side grinder and in the mean time, i'll probably try and clean out the sludge from of the oil pan and maybe just tooth brush clean the exterior of the engine tonight.


Are you trying to actually start the motor, or just check to see if it's seized? That large toothed wheel is the flywheel, and you probably don't want to try and start the motor while it's on the stand. People have built test stands before, but usually they're attached to the motor mounts at the bottom/sides of the engine, instead of the tranny bolts.

What's the history of this motor? Do you know how long it's been sitting, where, and how it was treated before they parked it? I guess I'm asking if you know that it's in a suitable condition to try and turn it, or do you think it will warrant a full tear down to assess the condition? The previous owner may be able to help you with this.

If the above checks out, take out the spark plugs, squirt a little penetrating oil in there, double check to make sure that the engine stand attachment points aren't interfering with the flywheel, put a 27 mm socket with a large breaker bar on it on the large nut on the front of the motor, and try to turn the motor in a tightening direction. If the motor is free, it should be easy and you've got one less thing to worry about. Doesn't necessarily mean it's in perfect shape and ready to run, however...

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djfootball
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Re: Zombie 510 Resurrection

Postby djfootball » 15 Oct 2012 09:38

okayfine wrote:
Again, a little work on your part goes a long way. You could have avoided this situation easily. All air tools will have a base CFM@air-pressure spec. Your compressor will have the same. For the tool to work with your compressor, your compressor has to (at least!) put out the tool's rated CFM/pressure. It's simple.



I've found out that "at least" doesn't work at all. It's really more like x7 the cfm

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djfootball
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Re: Zombie 510 Resurrection

Postby djfootball » 15 Oct 2012 09:39

HudsonMC wrote:

take out the spark plugs, squirt a little penetrating oil in there, double check to make sure that the engine stand attachment points aren't interfering with the flywheel, put a 27 mm socket with a large breaker bar on it on the large nut on the front of the motor, and try to turn the motor in a tightening direction. If the motor is free, it should be easy and you've got one less thing to worry about. Doesn't necessarily mean it's in perfect shape and ready to run, however...


The engine is free. Meaning that it will turn and I added the oil before hand and waited a couple of days before trying to turn it. But yea, it turns freely.
Last edited by djfootball on 15 Oct 2012 09:56, edited 1 time in total.

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okayfine
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Re: Zombie 510 Resurrection

Postby okayfine » 15 Oct 2012 09:50

djfootball wrote:I've found out that "at least" doesn't work at all. It's really more like x7 the cfm


Any sort of sand blaster setup is about at the top of the CFM charts. If you have plans of doing the whole car, your compressor is going to want to be of the 220V oil type with a ruddy huge tank.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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jason
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Re: Zombie 510 Resurrection

Postby jason » 15 Oct 2012 10:23

djfootball wrote:
HudsonMC wrote:

take out the spark plugs, squirt a little penetrating oil in there, double check to make sure that the engine stand attachment points aren't interfering with the flywheel, put a 27 mm socket with a large breaker bar on it on the large nut on the front of the motor, and try to turn the motor in a tightening direction. If the motor is free, it should be easy and you've got one less thing to worry about. Doesn't necessarily mean it's in perfect shape and ready to run, however...


The engine is free. Meaning that it will turn and I added the oil before hand and waited a couple of days before trying to turn it. But yea, it turns freely.


L16 head gaskets are cheap over at Rockauto. It might be an idea to pull the head and have a look inside. to see what the bores look like.
Jason

HudsonMC
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Re: Zombie 510 Resurrection

Postby HudsonMC » 15 Oct 2012 11:53

Watch Hainz's L series teardown videos on youtube first. You'll be well prepared after that.

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Byron510
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Re: Zombie 510 Resurrection

Postby Byron510 » 15 Oct 2012 19:55

And little hint on rusty brake lines.
I've had lots of experience here. You have a few options.
The high quality brake line wrench is a must on any rusty car.
Your second option is vice grips. Now I know some guys from will cringe here, but if it's really tight, even a fancy brake line wrench may not help. The vise grips will mark the nut, and you'll need to force a 10mm wrench over the nut to get it back in shape.
Failing the above, then it's time to get a little more serious. Rust often forms between the tube and nut, effectively seizing the two together. You'll need heat to break the bond. A simple propane torch is enough.
BUT....
A) brake fluid is flammable, and burns nearly invisible while giving off a pungent and likely toxic fume - how would I know this.....
B) the rubber lines MUST be replaced - the heat will destroy the crimped ends
C) fluid tends to trap in the crimp fillings, sometimes the hose will literally blow up and off the crimped fitting WEAR Safety Glasses.

And lastly you may up replacing the line because no matter how hard you try, you may just twist the line or somehow render it unservicable. Here you have two options, but preformed lines and get creative at making them fit your application or buy a flaring kit and line. Unless you are willing to spend real money on a real tube flaring tool, I suggest the former. 90% of all tube flaring tools I've used are not worth the packaging that contains them.

My $.02 worth - keep us posted.

Byron
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because the opposite never works.

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djfootball
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Re: Zombie 510 Resurrection

Postby djfootball » 16 Oct 2012 04:44

Thank you Byron, I think i'm going to test my skills and try to get them off without damage which will be unlikely. Blueridge has offered to help me form/flare some lines in the even that I decide to buy some new ones. I just hope I don't damage the junction fittings that split the lines from one side to the other. Either way, i'm waiting for my "How to keep your datsun alive" book (OKFINE and BLUERIDGE thanks) to arrive before doing anything mechanical from here on out. I must tell you though, aside from feeling like "that guy", I've been having a blast disassembling my 510.

HudsonMC thanks for the video suggestions, I watched all of them while putting my baby to sleep last night. Now I know how to time my L16 and adjust the valves along with replacing a new head gasket.

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James
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Re: Zombie 510 Resurrection

Postby James » 16 Oct 2012 08:11

You are not that guy. Keep going. You've got your eyes open I think to the project.
Finished is better than perfect......

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djfootball
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Re: Zombie 510 Resurrection

Postby djfootball » 16 Oct 2012 08:41

I've found a new shell and just need to get the monies together. IN the mean time I will still be working on this 2dr 510 rotty shell. I would eventually like to do what Phil did by drilling out panel sections and fixing them.


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