Project Miracle Whip - 1968 510 4door s13 sr20det

[sssexxx]

Dude!!! What a great thread!! Awesome!!! Thank you!!!!

[shacks510]

@shacks510 - That is a beautiful car my friend. Pick her up ASAP before someone who doesn't appreciate it as much as you do finds a way to snatch it. Nothing aggravates me more than a kid who gets in to Japanese Nostalgia and does nothing but destroy a car without doing the research to have it done right. I am a victim of my own ignorance in that regard and I should have done more research and done things right. At least I was lucky and smart enough to put a stop to it before things got too bad.

I really want that car. I'm afraid that someone else will steal it out from under me, but I know he would call me before he let it go. He really believes I would give it a good home (which I would), and would want me to be the one that gets it. He knows my love and experience with 510s, so he's comfortable selling it to me when/if the time comes. Money is tight now, so it probably won't be for a while. It kills me that I can't have it. Anyone want to donate?

[sssexxx]

Hi everyone! I didn't want anyone to think I was getting too sidetracked. I've been enjoying my rear subframe research and learning about what parts I really do need and more importantly, why. I think a lot of people build things they don't entirely understand, but know that is what most people do. I try to really know why. For example, it seems pretty obvious that you can't really go wrong with a lighter r180 rear differential versus an r200 which does seem to be more and more like overkill. Even for a well balanced, tracked 510. The real complication is understanding and finding the right r180 to transplant. Do you go newer Subaru LSD or older Nissan with a NISMO LSD swapped in? I originally thought, "well I have to take whatever differential I get apart anyway right?" Then there is the whole ratio conversation. I have seemed to settle in to accept a 3.90 versus a 4.11. But I want to really know which is better for my build and my needs.

In the mean time, I have been active deciding how in depth I want to go on the details. I am pretty anal retentive. So I went and sprung for a vibratory tumbler. For obvious reasons, I want to do as much as I can on my own. So I will clean each and every bolt before I send them off for cadmium plating. The idea of having a giant bucket of bolts has me a little scared, but i think I've accepted it. I'm just happy to be nearing the end of the dirty, rusty phase. So to celebrate, I began to clean up the garage. Moved everything to one side, etched and cleaned the concrete and then Rhino coated one half the floor. After a week, I'll switch sides and do it again. I also have 4 1000lb capacity dollies en route to help me roll around the front and rear sub frames.

[okayfine]

The real complication is understanding and finding the right r180 to transplant. Do you go newer Subaru LSD or older Nissan with a NISMO LSD swapped in? I originally thought, "well I have to take whatever differential I get apart anyway right?" Then there is the whole ratio conversation. I have seemed to settle in to accept a 3.90 versus a 4.11. But I want to really know which is better for my build and my needs.

Well, it really just comes down to money. You could spend money on an old R180 LSD that has the gearing you want and it ends up a bolt-in. Or you spend the money on a newer STi LSD that has the gearing you want, but needs the $500 stub set to bolt in (or use one of the two fabrication methods outlined in DQ to create your own bolt-in stubs). There are advantages either way, even if you mix in time with that equation - you can find an STi diff tomorrow (and it's much newer, and parts are more available), but may have to wait months for the stubs if you get your order in out of their availability cycle. Might take as long or longer to find an old R180 with the right gearing.

There's a short year-spread of STi diffs people use, but you could use the other ones depending on if you like the characteristics of the different diff styles. Search here for StrutlessWonder and his plethora of advice on STi diffs.

Gearing is another issue altogether. That depends in part on trans gearing and tire diameter as well. Best to get yourself a gearing calculator, plug in the known numbers, then see where that puts you with regards to revs:mph and see how you like the results. Then play with the gearing number and see how that changes things. www.datsuns.com has a gearing calculator, but you need IE to view the pages.

[goichi1]

That garage floor looks nice! how much did that cost you? I have been wanting to do something like that for a while. I hate my floor being dirty looking all the time.

[sssexxx]

Look what I was fortunate enough to find. A 1986 300ZX R200 LSD with a 3.70 gear ratio and the lovely finned cover. I was going to go R180, but I couldn't find a good clutch type LSD for a decent price. Subaru rears from 2004-2007 fit the bill, but then you are looking at an additional money for the stubs and CV conversions. I saved some money going this route and got a unit that can handle horsepower far beyond my projected 300 rwhp max dream if I ever go T3. As doubtful as that ever is. I like the idea of a GT2860 or a 2871RS. But, I digress.





Anyone have any good tutorials on disassembly and restoration of this unit? I want to take it apart, clean her up and powder coat the casing a nice black while I powder coat the finned cover.

[two_68_510s]

I don't know a lot about it, but does the powder coating mess with heat transfer?

[okayfine]

There are heat transfer coatings, but they're generally not as pretty as PC. On the other hand, I wonder how much polishing the aluminum would affect heat transfer?

[HudsonMC]

There are heat transfer coatings, but they're generally not as pretty as PC. On the other hand, I wonder how much polishing the aluminum would affect heat transfer?

Realistically, not enough to notice. Diffs don't get too hot, not like...exhaust hot. The temperature difference between that and the ambient air will be the driving force behind the heat transfer when you're talking about stuff with fins.

Powder coating...who knows? Not me. You're basically covering the whole thing in a layer of plastic, the thickness of which is not insignificant, thought, right?

Maybe just paint it? Duplicolor aluminum in a can engine enamel is awesome stuff. Durable, and looks *exactly* like cast aluminum.

[okayfine]

the thickness of which is not insignificant, thought, right?

Maybe just paint it? Duplicolor aluminum in a can engine enamel is awesome stuff. Durable, and looks *exactly* like cast aluminum.

Not insignificant, no - anodize would be the way to go if dimensional addition is an issue. IMO the money spent on PCing these parts is not going to give much value. If the diff is in good shape, I'd avoid pulling it apart just to PC it.

[PoorMtnKid]

When I got my R180 it was surface rust galore. It came from a wrecked sti on the east coast. I just took a wire wheel on my air tools and cleaned it up real good then I used POR15 on it. The thing came out super nice. Now I did not do anything to the cover. Just cleaned it with degreeser. Check my build thread. Not sure on the page but at least 7-10 back from now.

[sssexxx]

two_68_510s - Powder coating would have a nominal effect on performance at worst, but I may just powder coat the cover. I already sprayed my engine with high heat enamel paint and found it extremely easy to work with. Although, if I were to do it again, I would go with a matte black finish. You can see pictures of this on my ratsun build which started way, way back.

okayfine - I hear you about the cost versus the benefit of opening the part up, but how would I really know the condition of the piece without cracking her open? Maybe just pop the cover off, look inside, clean out any debris, and but the cover back on. That has to be viable right?

PoorMtnKid - I am sure I could do this too, but I am really struggling with my OCD issues and not putting anything back on the car that isn't cleaned, fresh and beautiful. I will check out your thread. Talk to me about POR15. People swear by it, but I am not 100% on why everyone thinks it is so good. Just rust prevention right? EDIT - Just saw your build thread! I love how the rear subframe turned out. Have any commentary on the FutuFab brackets?? Looks great dude!!

[okayfine]

Maybe just pop the cover off, look inside, clean out any debris, and but the cover back on. That has to be viable right?

I'd pull the drain plug. It should have a magnet on it to catch swarf. If you pull it and it's got oil in it, but the plug end is clean, then I wouldn't open it up. If it was shipped to you dry, then you'll have to pull the cover, but it seems you're going to do that anyway.

You won't be able to tell the condition of the LSD parts just by pulling the cover and checking it out. If the plug has swarf on it, that's a worry. You can check the condition of the ring (and, by extension, the pinion) visually, but to check the actual condition of the R&P you're going to have to set up a dial indicator and get yourself the FSM for the Z for specs.

It's hard to hurt an R200. Harder still to do so with a stock Z. Do you know the car it came from? All the better if it were an auto.

[StrutlessWonder]

Wolf Creek Racing Half Shaft & Axel Kit
-Still looking for cheaper alternatives as this car won't be tracked

There's a DIY option, if you can get ahold of a set of Mattndew's CV adapters. An entire writeup in DQ, and at least one entire thread about it here. Depending on what you can source parts for (CVs, axles), you can end up with a half-cost kit. Matt's adapters use Type-II CVs, Wolf Creek uses 930 bits. Which you go with mostly has to do with how much torque you're eventually looking at (though the 930 CVs also allow greater angularity). If you're already thinking R200 (generally considered overkill for a stockish SR/T) then 930s may be more your speed.

FYI: WCR CV kits do not use 930 CV parts. Todd uses Type II VW Bus/Vanagon Cromoly EMPI CV joints and axles (33T spline) , but cryo-treats all parts for additional longevity. He says his setup is good for up to 400hp, and his aluminum adapters have steel helicoil thread inserts for strength. Troy Ermish also has type II CV kits for the 510 just like WCR, but are not cryo-treated.

Make sure you have everything ready to go and measure twice before you order your CV kits. They are much more sensitive to exact width (not as forgiving) as the OEM halfshafts. You have to have the CV axle length within 1/2" of ideal. Too long or too short CV kits will not work (ask me how I know--DOH!). And if you go with an R200 diff, your R160 CV kit will certainly not work.

The Driveshaft Shop CV kit DOES use 930-sized CV joints (28T spline) in their kits (or at least they used to). Not sure of the brand CV they use. Stronger, higher angularity tolerance ( 930 CV max is 25 degrees vs Type II CV max is 17 degrees), but the larger diameter CV (Type II CV is 100mm, 930 is 108mm) means higher likelihood of underbody sheetmetal interference at full compression, possibly slicing open anything other than low profiile CV boots. Those CV boots can (and do) expand with heat under load and full rotation. Just an FYI.
More info here: http://www.blindchickenracing.com/How_t ... ts_101.htm

"LSDs and CV Kits R Us"

[okayfine]

Excellent points and corrections, Kurt!