2.3L of fun

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 05 Apr 2017 19:42

So I have been chasing noise in my car for a while now. I have gone through just about everything I could think of trying to find where all the noise in my car is coming from and I think I have figured it out. There is a very large amount of whining, rattling vibrating sounds coming from the transmission. Cruising along at 80k with light throttle is the worst. It shifts great. If I am hard on the throttle it sounds much better, most of the noise seems to almost go away...almost. Pull it out of gear at 80k and hold the motor at the same RPM and all the annoying noise is gone. I can violently turn the car back and forth while it is out of gear and still no noise, it is only noisy in gear. I replaced the transmission oil last year and there was nothing suspicious in the old oil. Is it time for replacement? Is there anything else I should try?
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby Chickenman » 05 Apr 2017 23:24

Earplugs?? LOL. Rattling of tranny gears is common if you have a Lightweight Flywheel. Not much you can do about that. Unfortunately the best shifting oils also tend to be the lighter ones, such as Redline MT and the AC Delco/GM Friction Modified stuff. Whining can often be bearings. It doesn't take much for a bearing to make noise.

One thing you can do is line the transmission tunnel with DynaMat, HushMat, Noico or a similar product. They make special products that cut down on heat and noise. That can make a considerable difference. Noico seems to be very cost effective.

My 280z has a fair amount of sound deadening already in the car ( Carpet and underlay ), but I'm going to be adding Dynamat to the trunk area ( rear end noise ) tranny tunnel and of course the doors. Door are like Tin cans on our cars.

Yeah, it adds a few pounds. Not a big deal to me.

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bertvorgon
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby bertvorgon » 06 Apr 2017 05:27

Morning Norm,

One thing I did was to cut some foam and lay it around the shifter area, tucked just under the lip of the trans tunnel, then, I also put some foam up into the shifter boot. This made a hell of a difference with noise transmission (pun intended) from that area. Foam is cheap and it also wicks up the slight weep of oil from the shifter area and you can change it out once a season. I will be doing mine soon once I finish my methanol project so I will take some pics,

I also get a vibration at certain RPM from the shifter pivot, so I put a very HEAVY dollop of grease on that also. As the bushing wears it does get loose. Did Andy put the nice steel insert in there?

And then there is......EARPLUGS.....when I get in the car, the ear plugs go in, just takes the "busyness" out of everything and you can really hear the music of the motor.

We all have that noise with our 5 speeds in various degrees with light load, mine is horrible when I am going downhill off the throttle, which is why I gear down sometimes to get more load through the power train.

It's amazing where and what can cause noise. I had one rattle driving me crazy. So, one day I just sat there in the car and revved the motor to the "vibration/rattle" point, turned out it was the pin on my fire extinguisher. I put a bit of clear hose over the end of the pin and the attachment chain.....quiet.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

Three B's Racing
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby Three B's Racing » 06 Apr 2017 05:42

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Wow!!! I've been have that exact same noise issue as funwithmonkeys. I have floor insulation and the SR trans tunnel cover but am looking at stuffing it with foam plus the shifter boot as bertvorgan has. Earplugs? no way, at hiway speeds it isn't bad at all and I can actually hear Jimi Crying Mary doh!! But I've gone ahead and started a rebuild on another SR FS5W71C trans for when I have nothing to do I'll slap it in.
"Lastnight the wife said oh boy when your dead you can't take nothing with you but your soul oh "Think"
- John Lennon

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bertvorgon
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby bertvorgon » 06 Apr 2017 07:33

I go around the car and lightly rap things..panels, cables, brackets...anything really, if it vibrates it must be fixed! The sum total of anything that does that is noise in the car. Even make sure your license plate does not vibrate on the back panel.
Here are a couple of pictures, one of the clear vinyl line I put over the chain, then there is a small piece of tape on the pin end, which stops the pin vibrating, yet would offer no issue if I had to pull it quickly.

There is a small piece of split hose put onto the bottom of my back panel, which just absorbed the small rattle from there.

I even had a bad rattle under the dash, just turned out to be the heater flapper valve if my control lever is not pushed all the way over, simple fix yet was it ever noisy.
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"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 06 Apr 2017 08:47

Thanks guys. Ithe is nice to know that it isn't just me. Keith I have the foam, you suggested that a while ago to me. I went around this week tapping things with a screwdriver. I only found one thing rattling and took care of that. I have sound deadening on the transaction tunnel and carpet covering it. I'm pretty sure all the noise it just from the trans when off or on very light throttle. In neutral it almost all goes away. I might try a different oil in it as Richard suggests. I will have to ask Andy for the sleeve. I should be seeing him at the end of the month for an alignment touchup.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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New shoes

Postby funwithmonkeys » 24 May 2017 15:05

Well my car got a new pair of shoes today. Nitto NT01's. I have about 50k on them so far and I have to say they are a very different tire to the Yokohama' s. I don't know how the grip level compares yet but just in ride there is a massive difference. With the A050's every line in the road would drag the car around. Every bump would rattle the whole car. They have an extremly hard sidewall that let me run 25psi and still have a very pointy car that would turn in at the slightest turn of the wheel no matter how much speed you were carrying in. After 50k with the Nitto's the car no longer wants to follow every line in the road. Bumps and road reflectors are hardly noticed. On the turns I have done so far the car turns in well but it takes a bit more movement of the wheel. I'm going to play with my pressures this weekend to see how that changes the way the car feels. So far I am happy with them. I just need to get into the fast corners now to see how confidence inspiring they are. For sure these will be easier for any long drive. Just the fact that they don't try and follow every little line makes the car more relaxing.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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bertvorgon
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby bertvorgon » 24 May 2017 17:56

I will look forward to your assessment, as I know how your car worked following me.

What pressure are you at?
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 24 May 2017 18:07

I started them at 28 cold. 32 hot. I'm going to put it up 1lb at a time to see how it feels. I've got a nice piece of road to try it out on this weekend. So far so good. In a couple of quicker corners on the way home I found they take a bit more of a set the the yoko' s. Nothing disconcerting so I think a change in pressure will help that out.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 28 May 2017 21:54

I got out today and played with my tire pressures on my favorite stretch of windy road. I got the front of the car where I want it but the back just isn't there yet. I really feel like I can lean on the nose of the car now and it will do exactly what I want it to. The back isn't as planted as I want it. I'm going to start toying with the rear pressures and see if I can find the sweet spot. I quess I was kind of spoiled with the old tires. The car felt great at a wide range of pressures. All the way from 20psi to 28psi. The Nitto's definitely have a narrower window. When I got the A050's taken off I sat on one of the tires while it was standing up and it held my 200lb with almost no deformation. They really do have a stiff sidewall. The Nitto's felt like they would almost fold in half when I did the same.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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bertvorgon
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby bertvorgon » 29 May 2017 06:44

DAMN...that is NOT what I wanted to hear, as that is exactly the problem, is getting the rear to feel STABLE.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

Chickenman
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby Chickenman » 29 May 2017 07:58

Funny, you should mention that.With any of my Autocross/Hillclimb cars, but particularly the big HP RWD Camaro's, getting the front end to turn-in and stick was never a problem. I could get that dialed in within a couple of Practice events. But the rear. That sometimes took a year and a half of running and testing to get it to the point where I could really lean on it .

Getting the rear spring rates just right and the shock setting was key. With beam axles I always ran pretty soft springs in the rear. I think we ended up with 200 lb/in on the rear of the Camaro . That is a 1.1 ratio with the Beam axle and wide spacing of the rear springs , so a wheel rate of around 200 lb.in. 175 lb/in was too soft and 225 lb/in made the car virtually un-driveable as it was so loose. I do like my cars very much " On the nose ". particularly for Autocross.

All the IRS cars I had were the opposite. The front end was harder to setup than the rear. My 240Z and 510 Race and Autocross cars were always very neutral. Biggest problem on those was getting the front to turn in sharp enough. Never had an issue with rear getting loose. Datsun 1200 was like a go kart. No such word as understeer in it's vocabulary. You could get that car to ridiculous angles and still recover.

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 29 May 2017 08:25

bertvorgon wrote:DAMN...that is NOT what I wanted to hear, as that is exactly the problem, is getting the rear to feel STABLE.

Keith it definitely doesn't feel bad. Just a wee bit more movement than the Yokohama. With them it was like the whole car was glues to the road right out of the box. They have tons of grip but I'm sure it is the sidewall flex I can feel. I will be moving the pressure around to see how it changes.

Richard I definitely like my car on the nose also. I'm really hoping that I can get the rear where I want it now.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby Chickenman » 29 May 2017 14:01

Yep.. I'm finding that the Continental DWS have a rather " dead feeling " around center. May be because of the rather tall 225/50 x 16 sizing. I may be switching to a Firestone Indy 500 in 205/45 x 16 or Falken 215/45 x 16 Azeni's. . They are based on a Japanese Bridgestone performance tire. The very popular R05. Fairly light steering from what I heard. The Conti's are just plain heavy steering and feel dead on turn in. With electric power steering it would not be an issue But they do have great overall stick and are awesome in the Wet.

The Conti's may also respond to some negative camber once I get the new Coil overs installed.

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bertvorgon
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby bertvorgon » 29 May 2017 18:49

OK, I will wait for your final judgement. As long as they are not even close to those R888's.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer


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