2.3L of fun

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 08 Jun 2017 11:43

I have the R160 from a Subaru with 4.44 gears. It does have the 14mm bolt. I had it out earlier this year because one of the bolts broke the last 5mm off of it. I will be checking everything while I have the CV's out.
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Chickenman
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby Chickenman » 08 Jun 2017 14:02

I was communicating with some Z owners in Australia and NZ, and they use nothing but the 280ZX and 300ZX( Z31 ) CV's and axles. Strong, silent and zero issues. Don't know if you can make them fit 510's but it may be an idea.

My cat is going insane right now!! Running around the house at 100 MPH jumping at everything he see's LOL

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TheHeretic
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby TheHeretic » 08 Jun 2017 14:26

What did Troy say about the fitment? I'm having him put in the CV's this week. Think he now uses a newer more improved set?
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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 08 Jun 2017 14:36

He told me that is the way they are. I don't know if hos new type has less play in the splines but I would ask him about it. It was horrible to drive with. At part throttle , coasting or on/off throttle it sounded like someone was hitting my diff with a hammer. It is really easy to tell if you can get your hands on the kit he is going to install. Just grab the ends of it and rotate. If you can move one end while the other end is being held still it is going to make a knocking noise. I have about 5 degrees of rotation per side in the splines. There should be near 0. I can see no wear in the kit but I have not got it off or pulled it apart. I will update with pictures when I get it apart.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby Chickenman » 08 Jun 2017 14:50

That's just not acceptable. Poor machining and tolerances. Do CV's and axles from a gazillion stock VW/Audi's Toyota' Honda's etc clunk and bang? No. Neither do proper CV's and axles in Race Cars. Loose tolerance in axles and CV's create shock loads which break parts. You don't have to be an engineer to understand that...

A certain 900 HP local Corvette was having constant problems with snapping axles made from a well known USA shop in Texas that " Specializes in Driveshafts ". Shaft tolerances were crap and you could see sharp edges in snap ring grooves that caused stress risers with your naked eye. Told owner to quite dicking around with that shop and buy some real axles.

Had him call Mark Williams and that was the end of that problem. Cost him a few more $$$... but was far cheaper in the long run.

http://markwilliams.com/driveshafts.aspx?gclid=CM3Qgfeer9QCFciIfgodi4YKtA

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 08 Jun 2017 20:27

I have to agree. I am pretty sure Troy was buying these from someone and reselling them. I know he has a new version now. Myself, what I have is not something I would put my name on and sell. It definitely makes it less fun to drive my car with something banging away every time you are on and off the throttle. I would have happily spent more money for a better kit. If I bought a car and it made this noise it would be considered broken in my opinion.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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Byron510
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby Byron510 » 08 Jun 2017 21:50

I documented my CV installation here:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=530&start=720#p161090

One issue I did find was also play related in the Wolf Creek set up - but it was not in the machine work - it was in the CV joints themselves. Todd supplied me with the .002" undersized ball CV joints stating that they take more power through greater angles. The down side was significant free play - nearly 15 degrees per side - it was not drive-able. With the LSD it was horrible to say the least. But Todd was a good business guy, and he shipped me a set of zero clearance CV joints to replace what I had the the problem was instantly solved. They were both Empi joints and of good quality. The diff still bangs when cold, but at least there isn't a mile of play in the shafts making the car jump around!

FutoFab now carries this axle kit I purchased since Todd's passing a couple years ago, and I still do recommend it as a quality product. I've been very happy with the results.

Byron
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funwithmonkeys
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Out with the new in with the old

Postby funwithmonkeys » 09 Jun 2017 15:19

I pulled out the CV kit and put in the stock units. Looks like I found where I bunch of the noise in my car was coming from. I am thinking they may just stay out.
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zKars
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby zKars » 09 Jun 2017 15:36

Interesting. Any damage to the diff stub bolt heads in the center?

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 09 Jun 2017 16:02

No damage. The shafts were not bottoming out at all. It was just the crappy tolerances causing vibrations and noises.
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby bertvorgon » 09 Jun 2017 16:32

I talked at length with Andy about that last night, as he said, the issue is the lack of proper material use and the cutting of the splines. As there is a "price point" for that setup, quality shafts would be 300+ a piece.

I'm so glad I did not jump into the fray on those things, I would rather spend the bigger bucks...ONCE!

Maybe down the road we can get Andy to do us a real set.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 09 Jun 2017 16:53

That is what I am thinking Keith. Get him to make up a few sets all at once so it brings down the price a bit. I know if he made it it would be made right the first time.
Last edited by funwithmonkeys on 09 Jun 2017 18:56, edited 1 time in total.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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bertvorgon
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby bertvorgon » 09 Jun 2017 18:22

EXACTLY!!! Not to rant too much, but, I have been in this game a LONG time. I myself have tried a lot of things over the years, only to end in disappointment. And that is after spending some serious coin at times.

I am in no way blowing Andy's horn but, I have seen the crap that shows up on customers cars over the 40 years that Andy has to fix, sometimes from very well known companies that purport to be the best. Many times he has phoned and asked of they need a new micrometer...and I am not kidding.

Yesterday, there was a 510 on the hoist, with parts on it from a company that sells a lot of 510 stuff from the U.S.. Even I could see some very SERIOUS issues with some stuff on there, albeit some I will concede would be who ever installed them either did NOT have a clue, nor, there was improper instruction as to what was REALLY required to do it right. The bottom line was the suspension was screwed!

I have seen stuff from the highest end transmission makers, that has caused Andy to shake his head..like....WHO DID THIS?????

In every way, the statement of you get what you pay for, is a true reality, when cars have to go into Andy's, and have to get re-done/fixed/screwed parts removed/re-engineered, blah, blah. I laugh now when looking back at some of the people that said Andy was too expensive, then months later their cars were at Andy's, to remove/fix the crap that was done for CHEAP.

I get there has to be a price point a lot of the times, yet if people could only realize that there is a reason some things are cheap.

I just went though another "exercise" in getting some LED tail lights for my car, all the time thinking this could be another waste of money, as that is what my experience has been with OFFSHORE LED products...worse than the regular 1157 incandescent bulbs. To my great joy and surprise, they are what we have been looking for...finally...but, they are not cheap. On my drive to Knox a few weeks ago, in following Jamie and Greg, I saw how poor our rear tail running and brake lights are in today's world. These new lights are AWESOME!

At any rate, it would be cool if Andy made the shafts, then we would truly have the smoothest and quietest shafts possible.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 09 Jun 2017 19:01

I'm with you there. I spent about $1000 on this and I don't think I will use it for anything other than a paper weight. There is play in the spines, play in the joints.....exactly what there should not be.
I'm interested in your bulbs also. I just put in some super white bulbs and they are a slight improvement but not what I would like.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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RMS
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby RMS » 10 Jun 2017 13:40

I often feel like the only reason I am able to keep you guys in sight on our runs is because my cars are basically stock and not filled with compromises
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