2.3L of fun

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bertvorgon
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby bertvorgon » 18 Jun 2017 12:11

Yah, I made it my rule to roll the window right up on pre-grid, did not want ANY distractions.

I too witnessed people yacking away for the whole walk...course....what course?

The fast guys were the ones that totally focused on the day. Once I had it in my mind..THEN I would help some of the new people to walk the potential line, as each car was different, there was no PROPER line. That I enjoyed as I also instructed the Solo schools too, so I like to think I did help people on how to focus and prepare.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 04 Jul 2017 22:08

Well I have spent the last week getting out and driving as much as I can. I have been playing some more with my tires. As the temperature has gone up my car is feeling more squirmy in the back end. It's not as sure footed as I am used to, I just can't tell when the back is going to give out and let go. They have lots of grip but I just feel a lot more movement in the back than I feel comfortable with. It's not confidence inspiring, I'm having real trouble being confident diving into corners. This was never an issue with the Yokohama' s. The turn in is good but I don't feel as much feedback as I have come to expect from my tires.
After much reading I have found that Toyo is the parent company of Nitto. They use the same compounds and construction. I may look into some different rubber if this is all I can get out of these.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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bertvorgon
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby bertvorgon » 05 Jul 2017 05:26

Thanks for the honest appraisal on those tires.

When I came back from Penticton and had that bit of slice and dice with the Z06, that is the first time in a VERY long time since I have driven my car at 9/10'ths. I just was amazing how confident it instantly is. I would suggest that the pavement temp at was least around 40+C. When I did finally stop first thing I did was feel the tires and sidewall aside, they were the softest I have ever felt them, just below the molten state like pure race tires get. The grip was astounding as at no time was the rear end loosy-goosy.

I am glad I risked rotating my tires this season, as I will maximize the life of the tread.

Maybe there is some warehouse still filled with 048's somewhere, waiting for our phone call.......

Norm, did you burn through those A050"s, seems like you did not have them that long.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 05 Jul 2017 11:34

There are quite a few people selling the A048. I'm sure you can get another set that are have been made in the last 6 months. These NT01's are very soft rubber. After a mellow drive for 30 min in hot weather and I can move the rubber with my finger. I would expect them to feel better being that sticky. It feels like all the movement is in the sidewall or the tires are getting greasy from being too hot. I have gone up to 36lb cold and down to 24lb. There is about a 1lb window where I feel good on them when they are at 130f but that window appears to move as the tire temp changes. Even then they don't feel as good as the A050. I am used to a bigger window to work with. The Yokohama's feel great cold or hot from 22lb to 28lb I can easily make the car feel sharper by simply raising my pressure a lb or 2. The Yoko's will probably be going back on the car.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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icehouse
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby icehouse » 05 Jul 2017 12:03

You guys really make me want to try the 048's!!!

Have you guys ran the Hoosier A7's or R7's?
I liked Hainz better...... Can we trade back?

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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 05 Jul 2017 13:13

I looked at a set at Specialty and they are wide for what they say they are. I would hate to hit some rain with those also. The yoko's and nitto's can handle a small amount of water..... Those little dashes they put in the hoosiers that they call groves are not going to move any water.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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duke
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby duke » 05 Jul 2017 13:48

icehouse wrote:You guys really make me want to try the 048's!!!

Have you guys ran the Hoosier A7's or R7's?



We talked about this on the phone, but for everybody else's sake, here is my initial experience with A7's. Like funwithmonkeys said, they are very wide. A 205/50-R15 A7 is more like a 215 or even wider. I had to do a bit of fender massaging to get them to fit on my car. In terms of performance, the A7/R7's are hands down the fastest DOT approved tire available, as evidenced by the countless national championships in solo and in road racing. However, they are not a street tire. For the R7's, one would be hard pressed to ever get them up to temp driving on the street. For the A7's, any extended street driving will pretty much destroy the tire, because they seem to heat cycle out in about 70 autocross runs, so I would imagine regular street driving would turn them rock hard in a very short amount of time.

But if you are serious about going fast in competition, I don't think there is any other alternative.
Duke Schimmer

'72 2-Door 510
"Simplify and add lightness."

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 05 Jul 2017 19:24

I just found this in someones long term test of the NT01 and it explains what the feel like perfectly.

"In terms of sheer grip it's all there no doubt. We found that it is between 0.5-1 second faster per lap than extreme performance summer alternatives like the Hankook Ventus R-S3 around a 2 mile road course.

That said, our take is that the NT01 is a bit of a blunt instrument, and the experience from the driver's seat is numb. It lacks the feedback and sharpness of the aforementioned Hankook, for example. We've tried them high pressure, low pressure, hot days, temperate days, and everywhere in between, and never found conditions and settings in which they really come alive."

I think I am going to put the A050's back on and sell these. Maybe look into the other alternatives or just run the Yoko's till they are done.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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icehouse
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby icehouse » 06 Jul 2017 09:45

funwithmonkeys wrote:I just found this in someones long term test of the NT01 and it explains what the feel like perfectly.

"In terms of sheer grip it's all there no doubt. We found that it is between 0.5-1 second faster per lap than extreme performance summer alternatives like the Hankook Ventus R-S3 around a 2 mile road course.


That doesn't seem much faster to me then a tread wear 200 tire like the R-S3's on such a long coarse.
I liked Hainz better...... Can we trade back?

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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 06 Jul 2017 10:22

I agree it does not seem much quicker. I went pretty deep down the internet hole last night reading reviews and comparisons. I found some guys on a clip site that were testing the R compound tires. They had been running the NT01 and switched to the Nankang AR1. They were running a 1.3 mile course. They were 2.5 seconds slower on the nittos than their friend with the A048 . They gained 1.9 seconds on the AR1. Both guys were running the same car with different setups ( spring rate and damper setting) both cars had 135bhp. They described the A048 as a tire they were instantly able to go fast on. Setting 5 laps within .4 of each other after 2 warmups. The AR1 they set 4 laps within .5 getting consistently quicker. They took 3 laps to get up to temp. The Nitto's took 3 laps to warm up and were within .4 on 4 laps.
Their conclusion was pretty obvious. If you just want to go fast buy the Yokohama. If you want to go fast on a budget buy the Nankang.

Looking at my tires the A050 some Australian touring car guys tested them against the A048 and Pirelli P Zero Trefeo R. Same car same track same driver. 300bhp BMW 5.1 mile track. They started with the A050 then the A048 then the PZero. The A050 was 1.1 clear of the A048 which was .7 clear of the PZero.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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icehouse
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby icehouse » 06 Jul 2017 17:08

Good info!
I liked Hainz better...... Can we trade back?

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 06 Jul 2017 17:08

Oh how I have missed you old friend.
My A050's are back on and instantly I am more confident in my car. Anyone wanna buy a set of Nitto's?
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 06 Jul 2017 17:16

Also all that being said the Nitto's are the nicest riding tire that has been on my car to date.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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bertvorgon
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby bertvorgon » 07 Jul 2017 14:28

Back from another 3 days in the mountains. Thanks for all your research Norm, specially the real world seat of the bum feedback, as that is the most important.

What we need to do, as I said before is find some still sitting. who cares if they are a few years old, I have run tires over 3 years old.....we are not splitting seconds in our cases. Would be different if we were racing.

After I gather my thoughts, lets start to plan a drive to Fort Casey..Or....

Your experience was like mine with the Toyos.....off the car and SOLD!
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Postby funwithmonkeys » 07 Jul 2017 14:34

From what I have seen talking to tire shops there are 2 batches out there. 2014 A048's and Jan 2017 A048's.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?


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