2.3L of fun

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Byron510
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Post by Byron510 » 09 Dec 2018 22:47

funwithmonkeys wrote:
09 Dec 2018 11:54
If your thinking of doing your car we could work something out for you to use them.
Now that sounds like an offer I can’t refuse.

This is something I’ve always wanted to do. At a track day a couple years back, I had a pass/front pre-mature lock up issue that was particularly bad on one specific braking zone. I’d always thought this was actually a calliper issue. So on the off chance I simply tried a minor adjustment to the coil over on that corner - giving it a bit more weight. Solved the problem instantly and allowed me to move one full brake marker forward before getting on the binders in that corner.

Simple proof that ‘proper’ set up was still required. Amazing what a tiny tweek to the chassis can accomplish, but I’m sure so much more is available.

Let’s work something out next year Norm, I’m sure I could trade a service with ya.

Byron
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because the opposite never works.

Danthewire
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Post by Danthewire » 14 Jan 2019 14:13

Pretty cool Norm, we started out with the old pogo stick and bubble weight checker.
Then bathroom scales on levers, then grain scales. The grain scales were pretty cool you could put your helmet on and turn your head and the beams on the scales would move.
Make sure when you finish the car is at the proper ride heights, a lot of times you will have correct weights but the heights will be off.
another tip measure the steering linkages under the car in a cross pattern , so they are equal.
Many many racers set the toe first and have the steering slightly off, never square it and then set the weights up. The car will be "darty" for lack of a better term unless the steering is equal left to right.

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Post by funwithmonkeys » 14 Jan 2019 14:25

Thanks Dan, my ride height is within a couple of mm of where Andy set it so I am happy with it. I measured the toe with just a couple of pieces of angle iron and a tape measure and it looks like I have over an inch of toe out. I am going to be tackling that when I get back home from Vacation. There is a shop not far from me that has a pretty good alignment rack with frickin "Lazers" that will let me help with the alignment so I can get it just the way I want it. I can't believe the car handled as good as it did with that much toe out.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

Danthewire
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Post by Danthewire » 14 Jan 2019 15:15

Yikes....wait till its dialed in. Its the little tiny adjustments that turns them into rockets.
Keep us posted I still enjoy reading about getting "there" on the setups.

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funwithmonkeys
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the old stinky diff......

Post by funwithmonkeys » 03 Feb 2019 21:11

Well after collecting parts for more than a year I am finally going to get the new diff put together this week. R180 with 4.6 Datsun gear set and Cusco 1.5/2 way TYPE-RS Limited Slip Differential. The math says I should have about 59 to 61lb-ft of initial torque by how many springs I put in it. I am very interested to see how it preforms compared to the Subaru R180 CLSD.

I needed a few things to complete the build up of it so I grabbed a junk R160 from RMS last year. Thanks again Robyn! Well mostly thanks... :wink: The dead diff was seized tight and would not budge. It has been sitting in my garage for a long time now in a place where I get to kick it unexpectedly every now and then good and hard. Tonight I finally got around to taking it apart to get off the pinion flange and ring gear bolts. I didn't think much of it and was not expecting the surprise that the diff was keeping locked away in it's depths. Pinion flange comes off easily and I notice a bit of a smell. Huh...gear oil smells...I must just be smelling that. So I go ahead and remove the stubs and all the rest of the bolt from the diff. I grab my hammer a give the back cover a good whack. I instantly regret it. The diff is hanging off my work bench and pointed directly at me. Nothing had come out of it to this point to I figured it was empty.....anything that was in it would have started to drip out the sides once the stubs are out right????? Well some evil Datsun Fairy must have had a bad day and cast a containment spell on this fucker because it proceeds to projectile vomit about a liter of the most foul smelling translucent fluid directly onto my crotch somehow completely missing the oil catch pan I have sitting below it just in case. When I say foul it is because I can't think of a better word for it at this moment. It was like someone fermented gear oil with sewage and then added some vomit they had been storing for 5 years. I have a very strong stomach and this is the closest to throwing up I have been in a very very long time. 3 showers later I think the smell is finally off of me but the clothes I was wearing are a write-off. I had to put all of my tools that got sprayed with this stink juice from hell in a pail with degreaser because just wiping them off just seemed to spread out the smell and make it stronger. I have cleaned the floor twice and it still stinks. I'm going to go buy a gallon of bleach tomorrow and see if I can kill the stench that doesn't want to die.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

2DoorJim
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Post by 2DoorJim » 04 Feb 2019 08:55

Well, sorry it's at your expense but thanks for providing us folks in internet land a good morning laugh!

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RMS
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Post by RMS » 04 Feb 2019 09:50

man, that is so tragic. great wright up !
two_68_510s wrote:I guess our donkeys are quicker then your sled dogs!

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Post by funwithmonkeys » 04 Feb 2019 10:33

RMS wrote:
04 Feb 2019 09:50
man, that is so tragic. great wright up !
At least I got the parts I needed out of it.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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bertvorgon
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Post by bertvorgon » 04 Feb 2019 11:05

That is a funny story. When we barbecued the oil out of the diff in Tracey's car during the 7 hour Enduro,
the smell was horrendous, to the point of almost your experience.

I wonder what is in that oil that does that? Or, in your case, was it a water content that got in there?
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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icehouse
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Re: the old stinky diff......

Post by icehouse » 04 Feb 2019 13:23

funwithmonkeys wrote:
03 Feb 2019 21:11
Well after collecting parts for more than a year I am finally going to get the new diff put together this week. R180 with 4.6 Datsun gear set and Cusco 1.5/2 way TYPE-RS Limited Slip Differential. The math says I should have about 59 to 61lb-ft of initial torque by how many springs I put in it. I am very interested to see how it preforms compared to the Subaru R180 CLSD.
I'm curious about this math. Does the Cusco diff come with instructions that include some formulas?

I have the R190 LSD in my car. It's set around 25lb break away. I was going to tear it apart and increase it. The after some research I found that guys set it lower for better turn in. The lower breakaway does limit the torque offset in hard corners. We do a turn barrel at our local autoX sometimes I will get one wheel peel. Other then that it works great. So I've decided to leave it alone. I'm curious why so high. I wish things like that were easier to test back to back at the track.
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: the old stinky diff......

Post by funwithmonkeys » 04 Feb 2019 14:02

icehouse wrote:
04 Feb 2019 13:23

I'm curious about this math. Does the Cusco diff come with instructions that include some formulas?
The diff doesn't have a much for instructions and what it does have is in Japanese....it looks like someone's 30 year old photocopier made the copies of it also. I read a bunch online from people who use them and it seems pretty simple to figure it out. The Cusco RS uses coil springs in the center of the diff to set the initial. It has 12 springs and you can put in anywhere between 4 and 12. At 4 it should be at the minimum of 51ft-lb and at 12 you should have the maximum of 65ft-lb. I have 8 springs in which if everyone else's experience proves right (every thread I have read says that after break in you will have 1 to 3ft-lb at 8 springs then you would expect while at 6 and 10 springs you have less then you expect). I am interested to see if this turns out to be right. It seems like it should be a lot easier to set being that you just have to add or remove springs.
Ramp.jpg
Ramp.jpg (215.36 KiB) Viewed 526 times
The RS also has a very fast ramp up so I'm pretty sure it will be noticeable.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

Danthewire
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Post by Danthewire » 04 Feb 2019 15:32

Ha I'm with Keith on that, years ago we were running the Canada 200 late model race over here at Western Speedway.
With about 10 laps to go (Leading the race) the rear end cooked itself, I have never ever smelled anything that foul before or since.
We let it sit there in the pits smoking away after the race anybody that came close to it gagged and ran away. I ended up burning the jeans I wore that night.
I feel for you Norm, the smell takes forever to go away.

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icehouse
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Re: the old stinky diff......

Post by icehouse » 04 Feb 2019 22:08

Very interesting chart! Haha. I think it’s a little vague. Since everyone’s throttle output is different the chart kinda makes me laugh. Same with gears, it will change the torque output through the diff. It would be fun to test all 3 back to back.
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

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funwithmonkeys
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Post by funwithmonkeys » 05 Feb 2019 07:22

I definately don't take the chart as an exact representation. It is mainly to show the difference between the different types of diffs that Cusco makes.
If no one from the future comes back to stop you from doing it then how bad of a decision can it really be?

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bertvorgon
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Re: 2.3L of fun

Post by bertvorgon » 05 Feb 2019 09:34

My experience, for what it is worth, with my Nissan LSD, was that once I got my car balanced in terms of handling, was the driver was the one that controlled things, with his right foot.

Knowing WHAT your car is going to do if you go into a corner too hot, will dictate how much throttle you may or may not use, and with THAT being said, to be fast you must be so very smooth, so that WHEN you need to apply power, and hence the rear to be putting down drive to both wheels, YOU control the over/understeer tendency's.

The "numbers" game can drive one crazy......knowing your car and your driving style is what makes you fast....
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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