Back to my roots

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2DoorJim
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Re: Back to my roots

Postby 2DoorJim » 25 Mar 2015 21:27

Thanks for the feedback guys. The deck lid filler never crossed my mind nor the race style filler like you suggest Dave. Honestly my preference would be to keep the filler as stock as possible (keep the car subtle - heh) so I'm going to look at trimming the door. Failing this I'll place the filler inside the trunk like James suggests. Though I'd prefer it not be inside the trunk the reality is that this car is not likely to get more than a few fills per year. I'm pathetic, build a car then hardly drive it! I guess I could create a slosh well around the filler cap then have a drain tube extending under the car. Hate to overfill and have wet fuel end up on the floor of the trunk. This reminds me that I need to add a fire extinguisher to my plan.

Started fitting my rocker panel today. Needs lots of tweaking to fit correct with proper gap to the door, meet up with the drip rail, and be uniform to door height. I bent my rockers from 18 gauge sheet but never anticipated how fussy a job it is to get them to fit correct. I spent a couple days doing the one on the drivers side and thought the passenger side would go faster, nope!

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JordanTr
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Location: Langley, BC, Canada

Re: Back to my roots

Postby JordanTr » 25 Mar 2015 21:29

Relocate fuel door/neck to rear panel? The taillight panel mounted fuel urinal looks terrible IMO.

With an in trunk filler neck, one drop of fuel with stink up the whole car. :(

edit: a few seconds too late on the reply here...
Jordan | '72 2 door KA project | '94 240sx RB26DETT | '97 Silvia RB25DET | '90 Audi 90 Quattro 20V (DD)

2DoorJim
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Re: Back to my roots

Postby 2DoorJim » 25 Mar 2015 21:49

I think there's an underlying issue with this layout being that the factory gas tank sits higher than the filler opening. Also the connecting hose would have to traverse the trunk. If I were using a fuel cell in the spare tire well it would be a different story, would work perfect.


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Last edited by 2DoorJim on 13 Jul 2015 06:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Byron510
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Re: Back to my roots

Postby Byron510 » 25 Mar 2015 22:15

My ice racer was a rust bucket, it got glass quarters as a fix. I can attest that one drop of fuel stinks. But I used the OEM gas filler well that is mounted vertically from the factory and recounted it horizontal up at the top edge of the trunk lid. And affixed it there. Then I had the little OEM drain hose run out u derived the car, affixed as it should be. If I did spill, I wiped out the well. And I knew drainage would eventually occurred. I had I tended to seal the well against the too of the truck lid with a gasket, but it never happened before the car was gone.

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okayfine
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Re: Back to my roots

Postby okayfine » 26 Mar 2015 06:05

Singer 911, so it's mounted in the front lid, but the same idea for the 510 trunk, and it's higher, and has a bowl to prevent spillage and a gasket for the lid.

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Or you could get fancier and have the fill behind a flip-down c-pillar vent, ala '55 Chevy

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:mrgreen:
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

dan_the_man
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Re: Back to my roots

Postby dan_the_man » 26 Mar 2015 06:31

The filler design like the singer porsche is my vote

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Mattndew76
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Re: Back to my roots

Postby Mattndew76 » 26 Mar 2015 13:26

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In a bucket.
An Idea doesn't work unless you do.

2DoorJim
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Re: Back to my roots

Postby 2DoorJim » 12 Jul 2015 14:22

Update on my project, if for nothing else than to dissuade others from taking on a similar project. My original simple plan of well patina'd rat-rod hot-rod has turned into complete rust remediation, to box flare project, to bare metal repaint! I think I'm done now. Haha, looks who's talking.

I scratch my head figuring there's got to be something better (anything?) to be doing with my time but then a few weeks back an old geezer dropped by my shop and reminded me that this is my hobby. He asked if this was going to be my last project to which I answered YES! He laughed out loud because apparently I've told him the same thing before. I've known him for about 15 years and in that time he's seen me build about five different projects and I guess I complained while doing each one.


Back on topic, I left off needing to replace my right side rocker and some of the rear quarter. Again, I selected this chassis for my project since I wanted to cut it up for an engine swap, flares etc, though at the time I only wanted simple bubble flares. Whatever the case I wasn't going to cut a good rust free chassis but now that I've invested so much time I feel I should have heeded my own advice which I spread to others, which is to ALWAYS buy the best chassis you can afford to buy. Why didn't I listen to myself? ?????? ??????????????

Nobody to blame for my stupidity....

Right rocker stripped off, small bit of sandblasting then primer before replacing the inner rocker.
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Inner rocker replaced and pan edge replaced along with fresh material for seat belt anchor.
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New outer created from 18 gauge sheet. Trimmed to fit and primed. A few words that represent about two days worth of work.
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Rocker in place as best as an amateur can do. I welded the top seam in place and had the door closed in order to watch the gap along the bottom of the door, then I needed to squeeze the rocker a little with a 2x4 and a jack to line up the lower edge with the floor pan. I did this with the DOOR OPEN! Of course after I finished the spot welds i CLOSED THE DOOR and my gap had shrunk somewhat. Did I mention amateur...
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Front portion of quarter restored.
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Onto the rear part of the quarter, as you can see there is lots more rust at the seam outboard of the tail light.Image

I cut the complete fender drop off. I can't describe the amount of bondo, foam, tar, tin, screws etc. It was funny how much it weighed. Since I'm building box flares the fender drop did not have to be rebuilt, but the out board portion of the trunk pan did need replacing.
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The drop trimmed off and trunk floor restored, stainless battery box also built and in place.
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Rear tail light panel restored. You'll also notice I cut the rear lower valance off. Prior to doing this I welded along the entire trunk floor seam where it met the tail light panel, this allowed me to remove the valance and pinch weld seam which was really rusty. The valance was preserved to be used as a mold for a composite replacement. On the right side of the car you can see some blue material which is the start of the plug for the box flare.
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2DoorJim
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Re: Back to my roots

Postby 2DoorJim » 12 Jul 2015 15:45

Back to where I left off in March trying to resolve my fuel filler which was compromised with the addition of box flares. After some close measuring I formed a metal filler which was just a little over one inch tall and forms into the lower part of the filler bowl. The reduced gas door will just cut into the radius at the top of the box flare.
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Right quarter primed, then structural adhesive applied where the box flare gets mounted/built.
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Creation of the foam core plug which creates the shape of the flare. Home depot insulation foam.
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The foam plug starting to get trimmed to shape. I used a gigantic fish boning knife then followed with a really course rasp (horse hoof rasp) which takes the foam down like butter, almost effortless.

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First of a couple coats of body filler to build up a hard surface, then contour sanded. The front and rear edges get trimmed back where the glass get built up onto the adhesive I mentioned above. Once the filler is sanded the plug got coated with mold release.
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Eight layers of 7oz cloth and epoxy over the whole quarter. The foam at the bottom is holding the glass up to the bottom of the plug since the epoxy has no sticky qualities and the glass would fall off with gravity. The plastic sheet pulls clean off the epoxy after it's set up, the next morning.
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Missed a few photos here. I used the rear valance which I cut off to make a mold for a new composite piece. Due to some overlooked issue (there were many of these "overlooked issues!) I had to reshape the valance mold before laying up the glass. Once the part was done and trimmed I glued it onto the tail light panel using the same structural adhesive used on the flares.
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Faired the corners into the rear quarters and added a structural rib along the length of the inside of the valance to stiffen it.
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Since I was working the rear valance I decided to tackle the front valance. I had both the factory metal part along with a fiberglass aftermarket part. The fiberglass part was built with a chopper gun and it had hairline fractures all over it so I decided to use the factory part. Some trimming involved to stretch it over top of the intercooler core which also changed it's shape where the valance bolts to the front fenders. I used some mold release on the valance then faired in the gaps to the fenders. The next morning the fenders easily separated from the valance and I sanded the filler on the fenders. Missed a few pictures where I paint stripped the valance, added some anchors to it's sides to help mount it, primed/sanded.
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Missing photos of application of epoxy/filler to skim coat the rear quarters and the valance I jumped forward to stripping paint. Roof, door jambs, trunk lip, trunk, hood, doors and window frames. 25-30 hours.
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Onto primer, block sanding, tapping out dents and such. The black primer is high solids and left over from another project. The final pre paint primer coat will be white. As of this post the hood, trunk, front fenders and rear quarters are ready for final primer. Still some work to do on the tail light panel, detailing of the drip rails and window openings. Light at the end of the tunnel. Started this project Sept 2013.

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Byron510
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Re: Back to my roots

Postby Byron510 » 12 Jul 2015 17:48

Wow Jim, heck of a follow up. And a pile of work done, way to stick with it. But this will be your car in the end - worth the effort.
Certainly the salt belt is not kind to any car, our 510's or otherwise.

Keep with it and thank you for keeping us posted on the progress. The step by step is very enjoyable for us armchair types who've either been there, are in the process or simply need to be reminded of what's truly involved. But it's also very inspiring to see the work being done by hand. Very cool.

Great job, keep us posted.

Byron
Love people and use things,
because the opposite never works.

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James
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Re: Back to my roots

Postby James » 12 Jul 2015 20:23

I'm not much a fan of box flares in general, but there is something artistic with what you are doing here - I think it will be very cool when its done. I'm enjoying the updates.
Finished is better than perfect......

2DoorJim
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Re: Back to my roots

Postby 2DoorJim » 12 Jul 2015 21:39

Salt belt.... Byron, the seller told me he daily drove this 510 right up to a couple years before I bought it, to which any rational person would have ran and continued searching for a better car. I had been looking for a couple years and saw some which were worse, where this 510 had alberta registration so there was no inspection process required, it was 5 minutes from my house, and I was frustrated having not found one. I figured some fiberglass front fenders, bubble flares, sheet metal, two hands, welder,... yea sure, nothing a "little" labour can't repair, heh.

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RMS
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Re: Back to my roots

Postby RMS » 12 Jul 2015 22:21

holey truck that's a big block :shock:

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two_68_510s wrote:I guess our donkeys are quicker then your sled dogs!

2DoorJim
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Re: Back to my roots

Postby 2DoorJim » 12 Jul 2015 22:27

James, like I mention in my update the plan was for bubble flares but things got out of hand. Several months back I posted a thread describing my idea and generally people here endorsed the concept displaying there was support for us box flare guys. I made this enquiry after seeing a guy on ratsun get shot down with a huge surface to air mortar and he simply mentioned box flares - wow.

Last week I had a guy stop in my shop and after looking at the project he described how it needs air inlet ducts on the rear fenders and vented front fenders. I've been down this road looking at the extreme end of groupe 5 BMW race cars but the conclusion was it's way over the top for a street machine.

Something else going on here which may not be apparent is my appetite to try and develop a skill where I'm weak. I'm a car guy, mechanical repair person, light duty fabricator, but I don't have any autobody skill at all. This whole learning process has displayed to me what it takes to do a body or paint repair, or what goes into some of the www projects I see. Once I'm done on the 510 I might even be able to fix a dent on my own daily POS. The interest in composite construction for the flares comes from seeing a number of homebuilt planes being constructed by my customers at the airport where I hang out.

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JordanTr
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Re: Back to my roots

Postby JordanTr » 12 Jul 2015 23:20

Looks awesome! Way to stick with it and get it right. You're a true champion!
Jordan | '72 2 door KA project | '94 240sx RB26DETT | '97 Silvia RB25DET | '90 Audi 90 Quattro 20V (DD)


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