The Red Baron

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TheHeretic
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Re: 1971 Red 510 "Jessie"

Postby TheHeretic » 23 Dec 2016 12:08

Got the car back on the ground just need to take some good pictures of all the work done to the rear suspension. So far the car turns in significantly better as I increased the front camber up to -2 degrees and dialed out all the slop in the steering box. But with all the polyurethane bushings put in, the coilovers installed, etc, the noise and vibration went up significantly. Way more than I expected!

Time for a winter project - strip out the interior and dramatically improve the sound deadening/proofing of a 45-year-old tin box. First major step is to remove seats and carpeting. Then chip away at the factory tar material to get down to the metal. Found a little bit of surface rust which I will wire wheel away and apply some metal primer/sealer unless anyone has other suggestions to stop rust from happening under the sound deadening pads/covers?

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Carpe Diem!
Ryan

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Doraemon
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Re: 1971 Red 510 "Jessie"

Postby Doraemon » 23 Dec 2016 12:53

Whoa what a good looking car ! Really like the upgrade like you doing like the Old radio, Tachometer, manual trans and the L20b. Wish I could get a L20b here in Europe :P

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bertvorgon
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Re: 1971 Red 510 "Jessie"

Postby bertvorgon » 23 Dec 2016 13:13

I have to ask...why did you chisel that deadner off? It looked to be in great shape. Mine was like yours and I left it in place, as it keeps the panels from vibrating.

Rust....just don't drive in the rain. That being said, even with what rain I have been in, my sealant is still almost as new

Is that a battery cable going through the rear seat mount. If so, I would have put a rubber grommet there to protect the cable.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

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TheHeretic
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Re: 1971 Red 510 "Jessie"

Postby TheHeretic » 24 Dec 2016 22:08

Really for several reasons:

1. My beautiful but clumsy wife spilled a full bottle of water in the back seat and while trying to get the water out noticed that it wasn't really possibly to fully get all the water out that got underneath the tar deadner. The underside of the tar have groves in it that trapped the moisture and I actually noticed the first layer of rust had appeared about a year after the spill happened.

2. Sound and vibration dampening materials have improved dramatically in the decade since the 510 was built and now you have access to products that not only reduce vibration and sound much more but are weigh a lot less than the tar board. I was surprised now heavy all the stuff was once I collected it in a box!

This is the stuff I am going to use - http://store.secondskinaudio.com/dampli ... 20-sheets/ as one of the layers of sound deadening.

Yeah, that is a battery cable...my battery is mounted underneath the passenger seat. Will definitely be adding a rubber grommet before putting everything bad. Probably a good idea even though the cable protection is very thick.
Carpe Diem!
Ryan

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Re: The Red Baron

Postby Button » 30 Dec 2016 19:39

Great looking dime. That second skin looks pretty cool. Where do you plan on putting it in the car, just the floor?

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TheHeretic
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Re: The Red Baron

Postby TheHeretic » 05 Jan 2017 13:53

Thanks for the nice comment - The sheets will be used on the floor boards, engine firewall, and inside the front doors + rear panels next to the rear seat. Planning on also putting it under the rear seat. Then on top of all the sheets and any other exposed painted metal, I will apply 2-3 coats of Spectrum coating (http://store.secondskinaudio.com/spectrum-1-gallon/).

I will be adding some weight to the car but not a significant amount and only in the middle of the car. Trying to balance the extra weight out with 15-20 pound savings on a smaller battery plus removal of the stock front speaker (LOL).
Carpe Diem!
Ryan

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TheHeretic
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Re: The Red Baron

Postby TheHeretic » 23 Jan 2017 15:24

Quick update on the progress (which has been slower than I thought). Tested out a single layer of Damplifier sheeting. Taken from Second Skin website - With a weight of .35 lbs. per square foot and a 6.5 mil thick foil constraining layer, this self-adhesive CLD vibration damper helps ensure a cool and quiet ride by killing structure borne vibrations, noise, and heat, while saving weight and money. Thanks to the high temperature & high rubber content butyl adhesive, you will not have to worry about this automotive insulation falling off, peeling, or melting.

Before Damplifier - https://youtu.be/tvpkIv6ZG-w

After Single Layer - https://youtu.be/ZBkYxunJ-iE

The next step is to put on the Sludge coating (2 coats) which should further reduce noise and vibration. More videos to come on the results of that...
Carpe Diem!
Ryan

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SteveEdmonton
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Re: The Red Baron

Postby SteveEdmonton » 24 Jan 2017 19:47

Innovative way to "share your results"-- thanks for posting these little clips.

It seems to make a difference for sure, though how significant it'll be with road noise (for example), is hard to tell. I don't imagine you've got a great answer either at this point. But it's clear you're hopeful-- and apparently for good reason.

I'm sure a number of us will be following your results closely. Keep the reports coming!
'71 4-door
'74 MGB-GT
'04 Miata

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TheHeretic
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Re: The Red Baron

Postby TheHeretic » 13 Feb 2017 11:37

Fun fact of the day - the factory tar sound deadening layer weighs exactly 5.5lbs. Removed it all a few weeks back and decided to save and weigh it when I had the time. Have the week off and the family is away in Mexico so I hope to get a lot done this week. Still have to check in with work remotely though...
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Ryan

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SteveEdmonton
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Re: The Red Baron

Postby SteveEdmonton » 15 Feb 2017 07:19

I just weighed the two rolls of asphalt / aluminum composite that I'm going to be using for soundproofing. Together they weigh about 6 pounds. And I don't know if that will be enough material to do the whole job, so if not, weight wise I'm going to be adding more to the car than I took away when I removed the old stuff a couple of years ago before painting.

Of course the new stuff is going to cover a much greater area, so the comparison is not exactly apples to apples.... Even so, this is an interesting little detail to think about.
'71 4-door
'74 MGB-GT
'04 Miata

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TheHeretic
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Re: The Red Baron

Postby TheHeretic » 15 Feb 2017 10:52

Well the install of the 32sqft of vibration damping sheets is mostly complete (tranny tunnel still need to be wrapped) and once that is done I will have "added" another 11.2lbs of weight. I will also estimate that with the coating of Spectrum I will probably add another 10lbs of weight based on the weight of the gallon of Spectrum and the fact that I will be using 1/2 of it on the car. So the total weight (minus the removal of the stock tar pads) is a little over 15 lbs which isn't bad considering that all the major panels inside the car that either Damplifer pads and/or Spectrum coating applied. Going down to a smaller and lighter battery easily gave me that 15lbs back.
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Ryan

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Re: The Red Baron

Postby BrianE » 17 Feb 2017 20:42

Ryan - What stack up are you planning for the transmission hump? Are you removing the factory tar layer from it or? Thanks,B

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TheHeretic
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Re: The Red Baron

Postby TheHeretic » 18 Feb 2017 21:23

A lot of work done this week to many areas of the car so I will just post progress in the right sequence so it will be easier to follow. The majority of the time was spent on the vibration deadening and overall noise reduction.

Once the interior was stripped on all the OEM tar sound deadening I was able to see while the metal was very clean and I needed so major replacement of panels, I did find some surface rust and right where the water was spilled just enough damage was done to start pitting the metal. So the plan was to remove the surface rust with a wire wheel and 300 grit sandpaper and then use a metal primer over the bare metal. I ended up using Rustoleum Clean Metal Primer and applied 2-3 coats. But before I did that any area that had any pitting at all received the comprehensive POR-15 treatment to stop any future progression of rust.

Under the rear seat was stripped down to clean metal
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Same process with the front floor pans
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The worst of the pitting right under the passenger seat
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Same panel after the POR-15 was applied
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Front passenger floor pan which had very minor pitting but I didn't want to take any chances
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Rear area needed a similar treatment to deal with the minor pitting
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Carpe Diem!
Ryan

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TheHeretic
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Re: The Red Baron

Postby TheHeretic » 19 Feb 2017 09:29

The next step to quiet down the inside of the car was to put down the first layer of CLD (constraint layer damper). This is basically butyl rubber on a 6.5 mil annealed black foil layer. After speaking with the owner of Second Skin about my goals for the car, he suggested covering all the major panels on the car with 50%-70% coverage and then following that up with 3-4 coats of Spectrum. Spectrum is a water-based acrylic polymer undercoating designed to reduce sheet metal resonance and structure-borne noise. It is made with Cryogenically manipulated polymers and high-temperature wax and is viscoelastic sound deadener.

Before applying the Damplifier, everything was vacuumed well so no loose particles or debris were on the surfaces and then (per Second Skin instructions), denatured alcohol was used to wipe everything down to get them all clean as possible. Once that was done, then the labor-intensive process of cutting to fit the sections of CLD, applying them, and then using a wooden hand roller to form them to the various shapes of the panels. Left the transmission tunnel alone for now as I will be putting in an FS5W71C (240SX) transmission shortly which requires the shifter opening to be moved back and the opening widened. After that is done I will go back and use the same sound deadening coverage as described above.

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Inside the front door...
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Carpe Diem!
Ryan

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TheHeretic
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Re: The Red Baron

Postby TheHeretic » 20 Feb 2017 08:33

Final step again involved vacuuming and cleaning the floors as getting in and out to apply the CLD tracked in little pieces of debris. Then application of the Spectrum coating using cheap paint brushes. The stuff is really easy to use as it's water-based so if you put it somewhere you don't want it a simple wipe with a damp cloth removes it easily. If it hardens up you can still gently pick it off the metal if you can get under an edge. Applied 2-4 coats depending on the location and if there already was a layer of CLD. Tried to paint the coating inside one of the door and I just couldn't get the paint brush inside without making a giant mess. So both doors just received the CLD layer but I was able to get about 70% coverage and the sound when closing them is significantly more solid.

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Carpe Diem!
Ryan


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