LD20 turbo wagon build

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jon510
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LD20 turbo wagon build

Postby jon510 » 24 Nov 2014 01:18

Well, I'm slowly getting going on my LD20 turbo wagon swap. It's a bit of a slow go right now as I don't have a ton of time to work on it but I'm just about ready to pull the L16 out of the wagon once I get an extra set of hands, and I'm stripping down the LD20 to figure out how I'm going to get it in.

I got my wagon from a guy in Maple Ridge who'd had it for some years. It hasn't been modified a lot, so it hasn't really been hacked up too much. Good and bad I guess, I'm definitely the first person trying to take off some of these bolts in over 40 years.

The wagon - it has some slight rust discolorations :
wagon.jpg
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Coming apart, with more broken bolts that I had hope fort:
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Not too bad under the fenders:
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L16 getting ready to come out:
l16.jpg
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LD20T in a lovely smelling rosewood crate:
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Front sump oil pain with alternator oil drain (front) and turbo drain (rear).
pan.jpg
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I'm going to have the swap the alternator out, it has a vacuum pump on the rear - I'm trying to figure out whether to put it on the usual L series passenger side or stick with the driver's side. Here's the huge stock mount (also for the AC compressor) with idler pulley.
alt mount.jpg
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Weird oil cooler that was a huge pain to get off, with the power steering pump in front:
cooler.jpg
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I'm a little stumped as to how to put on a remote oil filter setup where the oil cooler came off. It's a non-threaded inlet that I'm not familiar with, I don't know if this can be swapped out for a threaded piece or if I have to find an adapter. Badf pic, I'll try to shoot another one. The oil cooler was a huge pain to get off....
filter mount.jpg
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I hope I haven't got myself in over my head - sounds like the engine should almost bolt up once I figure out whether the L16 pan can be modified to fit or get a flipped cross-member. I've read up a bit on the pan and it sounds like the pickup is different than the L16 so I may only have the choice of a crossmember. Hoping to head out to Specialty next week to pick Andy's brain and see whether he can do a bit of work for me, sounds like he's swamped.

Anyway, I thought I'd upload a few pics as a start. I'll post progress once I get the old engine out and figure out how I'll set the LD in there.

Jon
69 2dr z20 turbo
71 wagon LD project

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okayfine
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Re: LD20 turbo wagon build

Postby okayfine » 24 Nov 2014 06:24

Fender bolts ALWAYS get stuck. Inner fender tops do look good for a Canada car.

L20D pan being front-sump, the picking is going to be different. L16 pan may fit, but you're going to need the L16 pickup, and plumb the pan for the drains. Flipped crossmember is only the work of a few hours, though. Byron did a great documentation of a flip here on The Realm.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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McShagger510
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Re: LD20 turbo wagon build

Postby McShagger510 » 24 Nov 2014 22:56

Hey Jon, interesting project. Hope you're not looking to go fast…. :wink: Did that wagon still have the crossed under tranny exhaust on it?? Ha Ha, always thought that was a weird one. I think I might now a guy that can help you out on the crossmember…... :mrgreen:

James
Nothing ventured, nothing grained! - Benjamin Franklin

'72 2dr. 510 Turbo
'73 240Z all stock
'71 2dr. 510 stock......for now
'91 Nissan truck
'78 Kawasaki Z1-R
'84 Kawasaki GPZ750 Turbo
'99 Kawasaki ZRX1100

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two_68_510s
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Re: LD20 turbo wagon build

Postby two_68_510s » 25 Nov 2014 05:49

Man, I am so ignorant! Why would the alternator have an oil drain line?
Joel

2 '68 510 2 door sedans
'95 240SX
74 Jensen Healey

“We will either find a way, or make one.” – Hannibal

jon510
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Re: LD20 turbo wagon build

Postby jon510 » 25 Nov 2014 09:05

I only know because of my landcruiser diesel. These engines didn't generate any vacuum, so to create it they have a vacuum pump that runs off a propeller shaft that comes out of the back of the alternator. The oil supply to and from the alternator is for lubrication of this shaft I think. Thankfully I don't need vacuum so I can just swap the alternator out, I'm trying to figure out the best option - I'm running out of juice currently with the IR one on my 2dr so I'm pondering the GM upgrade. A stock hitachi or IR one looks as though it would bolt right up to the original mount, though.

I pulled the L16 yesterday. I'll pull the pans off today and see if an oil pain swap is doable. Thinking the crossmember will be the way to go though.....

Jon

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RMS
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Re: LD20 turbo wagon build

Postby RMS » 25 Nov 2014 14:24

very cool project ! if you need a striped L16 block for weld up on the pan or an assortment of oil pic ups I can help. if your thinking of making an end table out of the L16 I can offer two bare blocks to make a pare. if your scraping the L16 I can put it on the shelf with all the others..... maybe someone will want one, one day. :roll: I recently manage to give away 2 4spds ,the guy even tried to pay :lol: Image

cheers
Robyn
two_68_510s wrote:I guess our donkeys are quicker then your sled dogs!

jon510
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Re: LD20 turbo wagon build

Postby jon510 » 03 Dec 2014 14:22

A little update..

L16 is out
L16 out.jpg
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Suspension is out
bay.jpg
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James has flipped a crossmember for me already so I'll pop that in soon and see if I can get on to engine fitment. I got in touch with Lance who did the LD build on the 2dr and it sounds as though the input shaft on the transmission will be a bit long, he cut off 1/2" as it wouldn't fit into the LD crank. I'm hoping to stick a zx transmission with a tall 5th in here to help on the highway for low revs with the diesel so I need to try to source one so I don't have to cut up two tranny's. Not sure if taking 1/2" off the dogleg I have in the wagon would make it unusable for an L series down the road, I don't want to ruin a transmission just for fitment.....

The injector pump has a solenoid, I believe for fuel cutoff, on it, that I'm going to have to figure out how to wire. Otherwise the only wiring is for the glow plugs I think, not much to do there. I'm having a bit of trouble trying to figure out how the solenoid should be hooked up but hopefully I can dig up something.
injector pump.jpg
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Also, I'm having a threaded outlet from the block made for a thread-on remote oil filter adapter. The stock mount looks very similar to what some of the KAs apparently have, not threaded with a four-bolt pattern surrounding it.
filter mount 2.jpg
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ZA

The flywheel is a 6 bolt with a 225mm clutch surface. I need to source a clutch, hoping the bolt pattern is similar to the z cars or a ka.

I ordered a bunch of suspension bits. Have to go pick up my front coilovers (from TTT, 275lb springs) to put on some 280zx struts I'm cleaning up. Waiting for front and rear bars from futofab (hopefully the front sump bar will fit no problems) and tokico inserts. I was going to put in the poly energy suspension LCA bushings, but after some advice and some reading I think I'll leave the old ones in. If I want a bit of caster adjustment down the road I'll get some of the adjustable TC rods. Not sure if I can find any of the experimental engineering type TC bushings for now - anyone know a source?

I swapped the LD alternator pulley onto an IR nissan 60A alternator I had kicking around. Mounts up perfect using the stock LD mount. The mount is a monster though, I will cut it down after everything is set for the engine bay - just a little hesitant right now as it has a mount on it for the AC pump, wonder if I might want one down the road....
alternator mount.jpg
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That's about it for now. Gotta get the crossmember in, pull the tranny and see how it fits on the LD once I get my flywheel back on with a clutch, and then will start looking at fitment in the engine bay.....

Jon

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Byron510
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Re: LD20 turbo wagon build

Postby Byron510 » 03 Dec 2014 21:08

Eh Jon,

If you are having your transmission overhauled and need the input shaft machined down - I'm sure I can help you there while you have the transmission apart. It’s be a great time to do it.

Byron
Love people and use things,
because the opposite never works.

jon510
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Re: LD20 turbo wagon build

Postby jon510 » 04 Dec 2014 01:15

Thanks Byron. I think if I go zx I will do that.

I got a bit more done tonight and have a bit more info on that front. Pulled the transmission. Bolted it up to the LD. It all lines up but it won't quite come up flush to the block. Almost, but not quite. So I pulled it and measured the hole the input shaft goes into on the LD and the L16. It's actually a tad bit longer on the LD, so I stared at it and wondered what was up. There's a tapered end on the hole in the crank on the L16 that doesn't exist on the LD, so initially I thought this was an issue and the thicker portion of the input shaft was butting up on the crank on the LD, but then I realized that even that thick portion should fit into the hole on the LD. I think that it turns out that it's the taper at the back of the hole in the crank that's different. On the L16, it's a gradual taper all the way out, and on the LD it tapers a bit and then has a straight edge (within the hole) around the perimeter. So, I think if I just grind down or machine the input shaft a tad it will fit. I'm contemplating just grinding myself on the dogleg since it's not the permanent tranny for the car, or even smarter would be as James suggested to find a 4-spd kicking around and use that for fitment.

Otherwise, I bolted the crossmember in and it looks like it should do the trick. Can't quite get the weird exhaust out, might be able to snake it through with a little effort but maybe not, might need to be cut. Started trying to get the swaybar off, broke two bolts even with heat and penetrating oil. &*)$$### Two more to go....

Jon

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RMS
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Re: LD20 turbo wagon build

Postby RMS » 04 Dec 2014 08:41

I got lots of 4spds kicking around just for this kind of thing.
two_68_510s wrote:I guess our donkeys are quicker then your sled dogs!

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Byron510
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Re: LD20 turbo wagon build

Postby Byron510 » 04 Dec 2014 08:46

I was thinking the same thing.

A local racer broke his transmission at the track this past summer, gave me an 11th hour phone call. When he picked up the trans, he wanted to pay me for it... :lol: Man I was just happy to see it go to someone who would use it!

But with about 6 of these in my pile - none had the 3 and 4th gear switch which means none of them are 71-73 transmissions.

Byron
Love people and use things,
because the opposite never works.

jon510
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Re: LD20 turbo wagon build

Postby jon510 » 11 Jan 2015 23:43

Well, some progress. Got the engine bolted in today. Took a little massaging, and the passenger mount may need a little tweaking, but it's in!

Got an ACT clutch spec'd for a KA 240sx.

I put the LD together with the dogleg I have sitting around. Couldn't fit the 4-speed I grabbed from Robyn over the 225mm clutch. The dogleg needed about 1/3" taken off the input shaft. I could have just ground down the edges but found I could cut it more cleanly. Byron has sourced me a zx tranny with the tall 5th that I'll put in once the body is done, so we may just machine the input shaft on that one if it works out. I'm hoping the clutch will work as I used the sleeve off the dogleg - the ACT clutch isn't as thick as the one on the L16, but the throwout bearing is thicker and sits out a little on the sleeve so that overall the measurements are similar. I may need a longer sleeve, I'll try to hook up the clutch tomorrow.

Here it is in the bay:
ld.jpg
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ld1.jpg
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ld2.jpg
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James flipped the crossmember for me, worked out great. Although the massive futofab bar I got doesn't seem to fit between the pan and the crossmember :-(
crossmember.jpg
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Driver's side stock L16 mount bolted right up
drivers mount.jpg
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Passenger mount came with the LD; we flipped the stock isolator and then tweaked things to get it to fit. It's being torqued a bit but not too much I don't think.
pass mount.jpg
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You can see the oil filter mounted to the oil cooler/heater in the background of the last pic. I decided to keep this unit on, it just fit. Only problem is that the filters are NLA anywhere nearby, I have some coming from rockauto - they're some type of unusual bypass filter, I'll shoot a pic of the old one sometime. I had planned to go remote, but I ran into troubles getting one mounted up with the stock stud (had andy thread me a KA one, too long, haven't been able to pull the L16 stud to see if it fit, ...), and decided an oil cooler perhaps wasn't the worst idea even though it's a bit bulky. Interestingly found a thread all about these filters on nissan diesel forums when Lance was looking for a filter when he did his LD 510 swap. It sounds like even though I could find a non-bypass filter that would fit the oil cooler, it might not actually filter at all. It looks like this was actually what was installed on the engine before shipping, it's different from the one I was sent that had been on the engine before. Maybe a good thing I've destroyed the new filter and realized it ain't quite right. Here's the thread. http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org/viewtopic.php?p=14916

I'm waiting for the filters and also a remote diesel filter mount to arrive. In the meantime I will get to work on draining and removing the tank and getting a return line in. I'm debating whether I should keep the complicated evap tank in the wagon as I don't think I need much for than a vent for the diesel, but we'll see how things look when they're out.

Another issue that popped up is the e-brake is in contact with the turbo heat shield. Not much room there at all. I may have to relocated and use install a hand brake, I think I have one kicking around from the old 200sx part car I used for the 2dr build. Things are pretty tight at the back of the engine but everything else seems to clear.

Also got all my steering components painted, put the poly ES boots on. New ball joints, center link, new rubber control arm bushings (got someone to press the old ones and and new ones in for me after reading the horror stories about doing this without the right tools - I wouldn't even have replaced mine except I ended up having one come apart when I took the control arms off the crossmember). Also got techno toy TC rods as I'd like to be able to tweak caster, and T3 coilovers. Not doing anything about camber for now, it worked out fine on the 2dr with the stock isolators so I'm hoping the same will go for the wagon, it won't be as low.

Put T3 coilovers on 280zx struts I managed to convince Mike Yarn to sell me. 225lb springs, new rotors/bearings/calipers, SS lines. James did a beautiful job welding up the perches for me, boy is it handy having a 510 guy with welding skills with a garage a block away from mine;-) I will probably re-do all the hard brake lines, maybe will use cunifer lines I've been reading about. Plan is to match up the front spring rate with a custom composite spring in the rear. Sorry, terrible pic

strut.jpg
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I have a big aluminum radiator I'd ordered for the 2dr that was a bit too thick to fit with the intercooler I'm hoping to use on the wagon. Inlet/outlet aren't ideal size or location, but looks like it should fit and cool well and it's free;-)

That's about it for now. Hopefully I'm remembering all the details enough to document on here just in case anyone else is silly enough to embark on the LD journey down the road. Crossing fingers the difficult to source oil filters aren't a sign of things to come for this engine.....

Jon

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Byron510
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Re: LD20 turbo wagon build

Postby Byron510 » 12 Jan 2015 00:07

Looks great Jon - glad to see the progress.

Re - 80-82 200SX ebrake installed between the seats:

I have done this twice myself - great mod and it uses all OEM brake cables ona sedan - not sure onthe wagon though.

i don't think i have documented it with photos (in the time before copious use of digital cameras and web based forums), but it does involve a bit of strengthening of the tunnel where you'll mount the ebrake (so you don't tear it off pulling a Ken Block manure into the grandparents driveway one day with the kids in the back seat), and you'll need to fabricate a mount to locate the end of the cable after it goes through the floor to the bottom of the car. From there you'll need to make a connector to the axle, which should not be a difficult chore as the end of the cable will have M6 male thread about 50mm long.

On the transmission - good that you reminded me - we need to mod your input shaft before that trans gets assembled do you know how much needs to be removed? I can take care of this for you, I just need a figure to work with.

Progress looks great Jon.

Byron
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because the opposite never works.

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McShagger510
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Re: LD20 turbo wagon build

Postby McShagger510 » 12 Jan 2015 21:24

Glad to help out with this way cool project! :mrgreen:

Crossmember flip is done by pre-cutting the bottom portion once the lines are carefully marked. Then it's welded to the bench and then the rest of the cut is done. In the past I've had the crossmember up off the bench a bit for better access with the zip wheel but this way worked pretty good too. Next it's tacked up, then 3/4 welded still in place on the bench. I then let it cool down, cut it off the bench and weld up the bottom portion. Done, ready for paint.
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Nothing ventured, nothing grained! - Benjamin Franklin

'72 2dr. 510 Turbo
'73 240Z all stock
'71 2dr. 510 stock......for now
'91 Nissan truck
'78 Kawasaki Z1-R
'84 Kawasaki GPZ750 Turbo
'99 Kawasaki ZRX1100

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McShagger510
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Re: LD20 turbo wagon build

Postby McShagger510 » 12 Jan 2015 21:26

Coilover collars
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Nothing ventured, nothing grained! - Benjamin Franklin

'72 2dr. 510 Turbo
'73 240Z all stock
'71 2dr. 510 stock......for now
'91 Nissan truck
'78 Kawasaki Z1-R
'84 Kawasaki GPZ750 Turbo
'99 Kawasaki ZRX1100


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