Dom's 510 Build

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diistinctive
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Dom's 510 Build

Postby diistinctive » 30 Nov 2014 23:44

So here we are, after a few months of looking I picked up this Dime up on Friday. It'll be a father-son(me) project, and hopefully within a few years will be a full fledged autoX/track car. That's the plan. I can't speak to the exact modifications the car will sport quite yet because we need to take care of the bodywork and rust issues first and foremost, but that's just the way it goes with these things! I've spent the past few weeks reading and trying my best to familiarize myself with the 510 platform. After all, it'll be my first time working with a vintage vehicle. So I'm sure there will be questions asked and you guys as a group seem more than helpful.

I'm currently in school 45 minutes away from home, so the progress, at least that I see, and will be able to document, will come and go in waves. Though I plan to tinker with it each time I can.

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Undoubtedly its best angle ^^^
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Also here are a few less than stellar shots of the 510 my Dad had a kid, for nostalgia, I suppose.

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Last edited by diistinctive on 11 Mar 2015 17:10, edited 1 time in total.

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okayfine
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Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)

Postby okayfine » 01 Dec 2014 06:01

Dad's old car looks vintagely awesome. Your new car looks perfect for what you intent to build. I'd still recommend picking up the "How To Keep Your Datsun Alive" service manual, and looking at the engine bay wiring I'd definitely download the color wiring diagram up at The 510 Archives. With Dave at FutoFab bringing out new sheetmetal, hopefully your rust issues won't be too involved.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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diistinctive
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Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)

Postby diistinctive » 01 Dec 2014 14:13

okayfine wrote:Dad's old car looks vintagely awesome. Your new car looks perfect for what you intent to build. I'd still recommend picking up the "How To Keep Your Datsun Alive" service manual, and looking at the engine bay wiring I'd definitely download the color wiring diagram up at The 510 Archives. With Dave at FutoFab bringing out new sheetmetal, hopefully your rust issues won't be too involved.


Just ordered the book yesterday.

Yeah the primer color he had going on was a bit cleaner.. As far as I can tell at the moment the rust left is in the passenger floorboard, trunk area, a bit in one of the rocker panels, and below quarter windows. Previous owners have visibly tried to repair some in the rear quarters but I don't doubt that there's more. The man I bought it from daily drove it with a 200sx transmission, so it runs well but when I return home for the winter break we plan to yank the engine and clean it all up. Speaking of which, my dad wants to acid dip the car to spot all the rust and what not. Anyone around done it lately? A neighbor a few houses away has done a Cuda and a Ford Falcon (from the east coast so it was just a pile of rust to begin with) and has enjoyed the results, but the place he had it done north of Santa Rosa has since closed shop. Thoughts?

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okayfine
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Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)

Postby okayfine » 01 Dec 2014 14:21

I'd look for solutions that don't eat away more of the metal you do have left. One of the more gentle blasting medias (walnut shells?). But that makes the project that much bigger/longer/more difficult. For a track car, do you really need to take it down to bare metal? If you don't have that much rust to deal with, patching and patch panels might be a quicker way to go that's almost as effective?
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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diistinctive
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Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)

Postby diistinctive » 01 Dec 2014 14:43

I agree. The plan is to make the car solid and never worry about rust, though it does seem a little extravagant considering its purpose won't be a show car. I guess the rust issues are just new to me. How might you suggest learning how to work with sheet metal and patching? Just go through tons of build threads and see how it's done? I've always been mechanically inclined and have dealt with suspension/engine work on modern cars but never fabrication. The most "welding" I've done has been soldering resistors on a computer motherboard.. My hope is to learn, and have this 510 be the medium of education.

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okayfine
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Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)

Postby okayfine » 01 Dec 2014 15:30

510 is the perfect car to learn mechanics. You can read through build threads here to see how others have crafted repair panels, but for the most part you're getting half the story as the various posts are not step-by-step. And some of the repair panels are pretty intricate (top insides of the front fenders, like in proflex's build).

Best bet is to practice on scrap panels that are about as thin as the 510 sheet. And that's practice not only forming patch panels, but also welding patch panels. It's not rocket science, but it is 50% artistry.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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diistinctive
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Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)

Postby diistinctive » 05 Dec 2014 17:49

Yeah, I don't suppose I'll become a master bead roller anytime soon like Chad, but will hopefully get some sheet metal working experience.

Found a solid spare tire well for $40 so I'll pick that up, even though my dad found an old high school buddy who's willing to send us a 15 gal ATL Fuel Cell for the cost of shipping. :D Just got my "How to Keep Your Datsun Alive" book in the mail today, and will start reading through it shortly.

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While picking up an engine stand at Harbor Freight, my dad ran into someone who said he had a sidedraft weber setup/manifold from an L16. He sent him a few pictures, and curious what you guys think? I know engine tuning isn't much of a priority right now, but we've decided we want to stick with the L series engine. I'm of course new to carbs so whatever advice you guys have for setup would be great, though I'll continue to research myself. Thanks!

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I know you guys like looking at 510s, so here are a few more old pictures of the cars my dad's friend's had as youngins.

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okayfine
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Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)

Postby okayfine » 06 Dec 2014 09:28

If you WANT to run a single sidedraft, the Lynx manifold is the one to have. If the seller's price is reasonable, even if you don't use it yourself those manifolds are still sought after.

That said, your car is currently running and you have plenty of projects. If you did buy it, I'd suggest waiting for a future time to swap it over. From the pictures you're missing the linkage, the carb probably needs to be gone through, and then you'll have to tune it to your specific engine. Not rocket science, but it'll take the car out of service for some period of time.

And that's even saying you want that setup.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)

Postby Byron510 » 07 Dec 2014 09:15

My opinion is that a single sided draft carb is not worth the draw backs that come with side drafts. Adding to that, if my eyes are not lying to me - that's a 50mm carb which is HUGE and would be very difficult to make run very well on a stock L16.

Side draft carbs are finicky. They don't like to work well at part throttle, don't like to work cold, are sensitive to high under hood temps, and you need to know someone with a version y good collection of juts and emulsion tubes to set the carb up correctly in the first place. The good thing about side drafts are FLOW. They can flow air, have great throttle response -especially at high revs and they sound awesome. However just one side draft does not take full advantage of all the good, but leaves you with all the disadvantages of the bad.

For your L16 or any L series mill, you'd be much happier on a street set up with a webber DGV downdraft on a stock intake or better yet a good working stock carb. Later if you decide to run a cam, some more compression - only then do side drafts make sense to utilize, knowing that there is a price to pay on the driveability side.

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diistinctive
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Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)

Postby diistinctive » 21 Dec 2014 23:16

Thanks for the advice guys. Won't be going with that setup. Just thought I'd throw it out there and ask about it. Thanks for the insight on side drafts too, Byron. In the end we'll be going with them as this car won't see the street very often at all. After a visit to Troy Ermish and a little discussion about roll cage work, and other little bits, he really praised Mikuni 44s over Webers. Wondering your thoughts? I know DCOE Webers are readily available, since they're still produced, and finding a set of Mikuni's is far from the easiest thing in the world. That being said, after doing a fair share of research into the L Series, the L16 won't stick around. Needs more displacement! I thought about doing the whole Z22 block, U67 head, cams yada yada over the L20 but realized how hard it would be to source parts and make that complete. Luckily, after my dad went up to pick up the clean tire well, some badges, and other little pieces from the previous owner they got into a conversation about engines. One of his buddies, just totaled a 510 :( and had a L20 from it. Dad asked about purchasing, he wasn't interested in selling. However, he mentioned a 2.2liter he was willing to part with, in running condition, with a cam and some side drafts. Price was set at 2k, but bartered down to 1k, with some other money saving through my dad selling him beds. (He's in the wholesale hospitality business). Aside from what I've described, I don't know anything about the engine and need to figure out with what it's built. Are there any other blocks, aside from the Z22 that could've been used, a bored L20? I don't think so? Anything besides the obvious clues I should look at when inspecting before a potential purchase? Anyhow, 1k for a built engine seems like a damned good deal.

Now onto the current state of the car.

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I was at work during the engine removal today and questioned why the transmission was still in the car? Apparently the garage door was too low and we didn't have the clearance to yank it all out at one time.
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Holes from the battery tray need dealing with. There are a few small spots of rust below them as well. :roll:
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Passenger rear 1/4 needs quite a bit of work... Ugliest part of the car. Should I look to find a donor car with a better looking panel or will Dave be making reproduction panels soon? I could really use one :lol: I think hammering it out would take ages.
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Found some more rust behind the bumper. It goes along the seam of the light panel and the valence. Considering neither of them are in too great of shape as is it might be best just to get some FUTOFAB replacements and call it a day.
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A dolly my dad made up. Troy wanted $500 for a steel one. We made me due with some 2x6s.
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Lastly, a new starter from a friend.

Next step is to get all of the transmission, electrical, suspension, whatever's left out and start the cleaning. I believe it's off to get media blasted after that. There's a place in Oakland not far from me that I found online that can do the work. Coincidentally, it's the same place Ermish uses for all of his cars.

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Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)

Postby okayfine » 22 Dec 2014 07:12

diistinctive wrote:Aside from what I've described, I don't know anything about the engine and need to figure out with what it's built. Are there any other blocks, aside from the Z22 that could've been used, a bored L20? I don't think so? Anything besides the obvious clues I should look at when inspecting before a potential purchase? Anyhow, 1k for a built engine seems like a damned good deal.


Going to have to take the engine apart to see what's inside. No real way around it. The block will have a stamp on it to indicate what it was originally, L-series is on the spark-plug side under #4 plug. Z-series is on the opposite side. Could have bored an L20B to Z22 size, could have also used a Z20 block.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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diistinctive
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Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)

Postby diistinctive » 23 Dec 2014 01:45

After email correspondence it's a Z22, "L20B" head, probably a U67? mild cam, dual sidedraft mikunis, bigger intake valves, and a long tube header. 10:1 compression ratio. 280zx 5 speed, and a shortened driveline. He said it had work done by rebello. PO rebuilt it two years ago and only drove it to events, with a claimed less than 20k miles.

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diistinctive
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Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)

Postby diistinctive » 10 Mar 2015 01:44

Haven't been able to make enormous amounts of progress, because my clutch went out on my GTI and needed to tend to that issue first.
Anyhow, I figure I might as well document a few things for my own good, and reflection, once it's complete. In the past few months we've just tackled the small stuff, and been steering clear of the body work that should get soda blasted here shortly.
Made a few purchases, most of which being the engine and transmission spoken of above, some windows, rear, and 1/4, without the 40 grit scrapes the ones on the car seemed to come with. 1/4 frames, without rust too, yippee! Now the front windshield needs addressing, bullet holes aren't my favorite. We've been thinking of making a lexan windshield, and 1/4 windows. I know it wouldn't be easy. There isn't too much of a bend in the windshield.. Curious if anyone around here has done anything of the sort?
Bought a set of libres which have seen time only on the track, and slicks with one heat cycle. Originally, we had planned on having a set of 13s, for the Autocross/Track, and a set of 15s for the street but have since thought to consolidate and buy a set of Avon ZZRs that can do both.. Well kinda do both, more or less the first. Thoughts?
A neighbor of ours lent us his sandblasting booth and we've been cleaning up each piece possible inside, amazing what a little pressure can do.
Nothing riveting, but steps in the right direction. The plan is to be done by August 2016, supposedly trans am <2.5 will be the marque for the Motorsports Reunion at Laguna Seca then, so we've heard. We'll see!

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okayfine
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Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)

Postby okayfine » 10 Mar 2015 08:28

Troy Ermish would be the local guy with possible experience using/making Lexan windshields.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)

Postby tr6racer21 » 11 Mar 2015 06:27

Now the front windshield needs addressing, bullet holes aren't my favorite. We've been thinking of making a lexan windshield, and 1/4 windows. I know it wouldn't be easy. There isn't too much of a bend in the windshield.. Curious if anyone around here has done anything of the sort?

I had "Shields" make a lexan windshield for my Vintage racecar. They got it done fast and it fit perfectly. I sent them an old stock piece of glass that they used for forming. The best thing is that they now have the specs and can reproduce a piece at lower cost for anyone else. I'm sorry I can't find the original invoice so can't give you a comparison price. As for the quarter glass you can easily make your own. I installed tabs on the frame with Dzus fasteners so that I could remove mine easily for access when working on the car. I have seen others screw or bolt the windows in using spacers to give a gap for air exit.


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