F20C in a 510

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mroverkill
Posts: 97
Joined: 15 May 2015 17:13
Location: Atlanta

Re: F20C in a 510

Postby mroverkill » 24 Jan 2016 14:43

Made some significant progress on measuring the F22C's engine mounts today. I had found some sources that indicated that the engine was clocked at a 12 degree angle from vertical in the S2000. My measurements today seem to suggest that it is in fact clocked at a 15 degree angle towards the right side of the car. I set the deck of the head (the valve cover mounting face) to 12 degrees off of horizontal and measured the engine mount angles (there is a machined surface on the bottom of each engine mount. The passenger's side read 18 degrees above horizontal, the driver's side 12 degrees, and the shifter 3 degrees. With the deck of the head at 15 degrees the passenger's engine mount read 15 degrees, driver's 15 degrees, and shifter 0 degrees.

I also determined that the mounts are evenly offset longitudinally along the engine by placing a square flat against the crank pulley and measuring the longitudinal distance to each engine mount. I also measured the height from the ground to the edge of each mount. They were .875" off, but my floor is 2 degrees off of level and the mounts are about 23.5" apart, the math works out as such: tan(2)*23.5 = height difference between those two points = ~.823". I'm willing to account for .05" somewhere in measurement error. Lastly, I measured the lateral offset of the mounts relative to the crank centerline. The crank is actually centered between the mounts, as much as it doesn't look like it. I'm working to build a jig to accurately measure the distance between the engine mounts, it should be done tomorrow and I will be able to accurately measure it.

greenthumb
Posts: 147
Joined: 19 May 2013 20:57
Location: Langley, BC

Re: F20C in a 510

Postby greenthumb » 27 Jan 2016 09:21

good to know it can be done- cluster installation excepted...

http://bringatrailer.com/2016/01/20/hon ... four-door/

mroverkill
Posts: 97
Joined: 15 May 2015 17:13
Location: Atlanta

Re: F20C in a 510

Postby mroverkill » 27 Jan 2016 12:29

That's about the 6th of these swaps I've seen. A race shop in Oklahoma (I believe) did one, Larsen Race Cars did another, there's a poorly documented forum build for a third, one user on these boards has done the swap (But again, there is no good documentation of dimensions etc.), and I've seen one or two others around the web (Primarily speedhunters). So it is possible, just difficult (Although I think 90% of the difficulty is that there is no good documentation. If I had had dimensions to go off of I could have fabricated a crossmember (or modified the original to suit) very very easily.

I'm hoping to provide some open source documentation for the swap with this project hence the thorough reporting of my methods so that they may be critiqued. In following with this I'd hope that nobody takes this information and uses it to create a product without crediting me and providing a link to this thread so that everyone looking into this swap can see that the information is out there to build the crossmember yourself with simple tools (Welder, drill press, saw/cutting tool).

The dash install in that build is pretty bad, looks like a mangle grinder job. My digital dash installation will be a temporary one. I've already stripped the entire stock dash out of my car and will be looking to build a simple steam gauge setup in the future. That will probably await a roll cage installation, however.

greenthumb
Posts: 147
Joined: 19 May 2013 20:57
Location: Langley, BC

Re: F20C in a 510

Postby greenthumb » 27 Jan 2016 12:36

I had to laugh reading this guy's review of some of the work done on that car


ThatBoostedRotaryGuy 508
Pretty sure they used an angry badger to chew the dash openings. Next time, follow up with a finishing badger. It makes all the difference.

mroverkill
Posts: 97
Joined: 15 May 2015 17:13
Location: Atlanta

Re: F20C in a 510

Postby mroverkill » 27 Jan 2016 19:57

greenthumb wrote:I had to laugh reading this guy's review of some of the work done on that car


ThatBoostedRotaryGuy 508
Pretty sure they used an angry badger to chew the dash openings. Next time, follow up with a finishing badger. It makes all the difference.


That amused me when I saw it as well. It's always fun to see these swaps, every time I see something that I'd like to replicate and about 10 things I note just to make sure I don't do them in my build. I have seen one high-dollar build out of Japan to date which featured some really interesting inconel header work to get around the steering box. In my opinion the only way to make the stock 510 steering gear work with the F20C is with some serious exhaust fabrication, but I am quite picky about the exposure of my steering components (particularly bushings) to heat.

mroverkill
Posts: 97
Joined: 15 May 2015 17:13
Location: Atlanta

Re: F20C in a 510

Postby mroverkill » 27 Jan 2016 20:21

As I work at drawing up the crossmember it occurs to me that knowing the center to center mounting dimensions of the steering rack on the AE86/early MR2 crossmember would be helpful. There don't appear to be any on craigslist or in a junkyard in the area, do any of you guys happen to have that information?

mroverkill
Posts: 97
Joined: 15 May 2015 17:13
Location: Atlanta

Re: F20C in a 510

Postby mroverkill » 01 Feb 2016 22:32

Howdy fellas, I finished up the main crossmember design in Solidworks today, all that's left at this point is to play with the bends to get it to be manufacturable and to add the steering rack mounts. Once that's finalized I'll post a flat cutout diagram to cut the entire piece out of a single 13ga sheet as well as the SolidWorks parts files and anything else I can think of.

Here's the picture:

Image

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okayfine
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Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:02
Location: Newbury Park, CA

Re: F20C in a 510

Postby okayfine » 02 Feb 2016 05:55

That's handy.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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icehouse
Posts: 3012
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 17:06
Location: Everett Wa

Re: F20C in a 510

Postby icehouse » 02 Feb 2016 07:30

I like car-parts.com That's where I got my MR2 steering rack.
I liked Hainz better...... Can we trade back?

mroverkill
Posts: 97
Joined: 15 May 2015 17:13
Location: Atlanta

Re: F20C in a 510

Postby mroverkill » 02 Feb 2016 21:19

Thanks for the tip, Jeff. I actually already have an MR2 rack, I've just got to make some measurements on the mounting.

mroverkill
Posts: 97
Joined: 15 May 2015 17:13
Location: Atlanta

Re: F20C in a 510

Postby mroverkill » 04 Feb 2016 06:46

Hey guys, spent some time figuring out how to make the crossmember manufacturable. Although it's a fairly simple part SolidWorks' sheet metal tools do not like to play nice. I had to split the part into two pieces each bent from a piece of 13ga sheet. I'll play around with getting the model to play nice with bending it out of one sheet, but if I had to guess even if I can get the model to play nice it will be unmanufacturable due to the nature of the bends (although I'm not an expert in automated bending processes).

The Solidworks part file also doesn't want to compress enough to be uploaded here, but I'll work on a solution for that in the coming weeks.
Attachments
F20C Crossmember CAD.zip
(11.17 KiB) Downloaded 35 times

mroverkill
Posts: 97
Joined: 15 May 2015 17:13
Location: Atlanta

Re: F20C in a 510

Postby mroverkill » 18 Feb 2016 20:53

Hey fellas,

Just took some final measurements that I'm very happy I took. There are some fatal flaws with the model posted above, mainly relating to the profile of the center box section 'channel' that runs under the sump and a lack of mounting for the MR2 rack.

I've been taking some measurements and should have a new model up in the next few days.

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icehouse
Posts: 3012
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 17:06
Location: Everett Wa

Re: F20C in a 510

Postby icehouse » 18 Feb 2016 22:07

Cool!
I liked Hainz better...... Can we trade back?

mroverkill
Posts: 97
Joined: 15 May 2015 17:13
Location: Atlanta

Re: F20C in a 510

Postby mroverkill » 22 Feb 2016 14:10

Hey folks, Just finalizing a few measurements before I post any CAD drawings, but here's a preview of the model:

Image

d357r0y
Posts: 14
Joined: 12 Jul 2014 05:40
Location: Pensacola, FL

Re: F20C in a 510

Postby d357r0y » 03 Jul 2017 19:07

mroverkill wrote:Hey folks, Just finalizing a few measurements before I post any CAD drawings, but here's a preview of the model:


Did you ever get this built?


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