So I drove around Japan looking for a Bluebird...

View and post your 510 project(s)
User avatar
KiKiIchiBan
Supporter
Posts: 507
Joined: 26 Feb 2014 23:46
Location: London, England

Re: So I drove around Japan looking for a Bluebird...

Post by KiKiIchiBan »

Any more updates?
My P510 Bluebird SSS Coupe www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?t=26929

https://www.instagram.com/kikiichiban/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBP1x8z2IBvfs-MQH2Gc73Q/featured
BrandonS
Supporter
Posts: 95
Joined: 21 Feb 2016 19:32
Location: Germany

Re: So I drove around Japan looking for a Bluebird...

Post by BrandonS »

I did get a few things worked on, but I haven't gotten too far. I seem to hit roadblocks on everything, mostly my fault.

First thing I did was put in the eDizzy, but I'm thinking I will need to get a new pedestal or maybe play some more with it and move the plug wires one tower over. For now I can only get it about 10* advance and it needs a couple more degrees.
Image

I also tackled the exhaust.
This is the old exhaust.
Image

Image

The new one sounds close to the same, but louder. The old exhaust had a resonator and a straight through oval muffler the same as the new, so they are super similar setups. I utilized the stock 2-1 downtube. I have some "titanium" colored header wrap that will go over it and the stock 4-2 manifold.
Image

Image

2.25" is a pretty close fit when going through the rear crossmember, but it doesn't hit. This is where the a band clamp is going to go. I have one ordered, but things take around 10 days to arrive on island via the states. I couldn't find a band clamp on island anywhere. I was originally planning to use v-bands, but the flanges won't fit through the crossmember hole, so the exhaust would be stuck in the car. This was the only option I could think of to have a removable system.
Image

I am very pleased with how it looks in the rear...
Image

Image

Then for never TIG welding before, I was pretty pleased with a few of my welds. They got a lot better as I went on. Maybe sometime I'll retackle the front half to make it a little prettier, but for now it works just fine so it'll stay.

Image

I did the one on the right, obviously.
Image

Finally, the other day I just started a little on a wheel to see if I was able to work the curb rash out. I think it'll definitely be doable.

It wasn't too bad on this wheel, but it had curb rash like this about the whole way around the wheel.
Image

Image

This is what I have now. You can see in the first pic where it is pitted under a wheel weight that use to be on it. I started smoothing that out, but I ran out of light outside so it isn't blended in yet in the second picture. I need to still smooth a bit of the lip out too and keep going through progressively finer paper, then polish. I do think they will come out nice when done, but it's going to take some time.

Image

Image

WARNING: None Car Stuff to Follow

Then this weekend I "rested" with a trip to mainland. My wife booked me a trip while I was deployed as a surprise to go hike Mt Fuji. She knew it was on my bucket list and the season closes next weekend. I won't be in Japan for the next hiking season. I honestly couldn't be more greatful for her. So I hiked Mt Fuji on Saturday, did 15 miles of walking Sunday to and around the National Gardens in Tokyo, then today I hiked Mt Takao. It's been a great weekend for stress relief.

Image

Image
BrandonS
Supporter
Posts: 95
Joined: 21 Feb 2016 19:32
Location: Germany

Re: So I drove around Japan looking for a Bluebird...

Post by BrandonS »

So the farther I get into this project, the more I keep referring over to this site. There's just a breadth of knowledge here. I have a build thread over on Ratsun and have been putting pictures up on Instagram so most of you may have already seen my build. Anyway, I think the advice from members on here will be much better; you guys just seem to have way more experience. Just to catch the thread up on the major things since my last post. I have now been restationed to Germany and have the car here with me. I've since gotten a garage so I can finally keep the car inside and work on it. The plan has evolved a little for the car as well.

At the moment I am working on upgrading the brakes and suspension. I've been at this for what seems like FOREVER. Time has just not been on my side. I've also been trying to go at it myself rather than buying all the bits an pieces. It's a slower process, but I like the involvement it gives me in the whole process. Also, I've spent a lot of time planning out a setup that will allow me to have my cake and hopefully eat it too. One problem I've had with this car is it is over sprun and under dampened. The more and more I thought about it, the more I leaned towards an air suspension system that will allow me to get a "softer" ride when cruising and then air it out a little which would effectively raise the spring rate. To go along with this I'm also fitting it with adjustable Koni shocks all around (Race front and Sport rears). The plan here is to drive the suspension in different modes and use the air bags to change height/spring rate and then servo motors to turn the dampers to match the adjusted height/spring rate. I'll make all the items to do this and handle the programming myself as nothing exists off the shelf that I'm aware of. A tall order, but I think it's 100% doable. I've selected bags that are on the stiffer side of things, so it will be as oriented toward the sporty side of suspension.

So here's what we have for the suspension so far. I've made my own adjustable lower control arms, shortened the shock tubes to locate the coil over sleeves in a better position (they were too high), worked out some brake hats and had minor machining done on them, and then made the caliper brackets to mount the calipers. Also some minor stuff to get the race shocks to fit the camber plates and the bags to interface with the coilover perches.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

So what spurred the brake and suspension is that I am planning on doing an engine swap in the car. Originally, I didn't want to do this and was adamant against it. You know how it goes though, everyone wants faster. So in Europe the CA18DET engine was available in the 200sx. Since the car is an 1800SSS I just fell in the love with the idea of trying to stay somewhat true to that with a more "modern" 1.8L engine. So I found one for a good price and went with it. I'm still hatching the plans for it, but they are 99% finalized, but for now the block's been machined 1mm over and will receive forged internals via Eagle Rods with CP 8.5:1 pistons.

Image

So in a nutshell that's where I'm at. Right now I am starting my way toward the back of the car and finishing up the brakes/suspension. Then I need to run the new brake lines, install the Tilton pedals that are still on their way, and hopefully put it back on the ground and drive it around with the L18 while I build the CA18DET. I'm really excited just to drive it just in the interim, it's been months since I took it off the road and I really miss driving it.

The wheels I started to restore above were tons of work to get done, but I did eventually finish them after many many hours. I absolutely love them.
Image

Image

Image

Oh yea, requisite shot with German plates...
Image
WxMan
Supporter
Posts: 227
Joined: 22 Feb 2013 08:38
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: So I drove around Japan looking for a Bluebird...

Post by WxMan »

Nice job on the wheels. They turned out great! I put many hours in to restoring my wheels and it wasn't fun at all. They turned out okay in the end, but it killed my enthusiasm for working on my car for many months.
The company motto seems to be "We're not happy 'till you're not happy."
greenthumb
Posts: 261
Joined: 19 May 2013 20:57
Location: Langley, BC

Re: So I drove around Japan looking for a Bluebird...

Post by greenthumb »

Keep the faith. I love your car, and I am a sucker for white, so loving this build. It will be interesting to get your impressions on the air setup when you’re driving again
User avatar
Byron510
Moderator
Posts: 12658
Joined: 01 Jul 2003 23:06
Location: Maple Ridge, BC

Re: So I drove around Japan looking for a Bluebird...

Post by Byron510 »

The shot above, (with the back end of what I think is a CS Coupe) and the plane in the background is great. And what I really love about your car - it has the steel / chrome grill! Honestly I think they look way better. The car looks great, and the German plates are a nice touch too.

I'm not sold on the air ride from a performance point of view. But I do like the idea of having an air ride to "lift" the car over obstacles like speed bumps, entry into driveways over curbs, getting onto a hoist. This is something I have been considering. I just wonder what the whole system weighs and if it can run totally deflated.

Keep the posts coming.

Byron
Love people and use things,
because the opposite never works.
BrandonS
Supporter
Posts: 95
Joined: 21 Feb 2016 19:32
Location: Germany

Re: So I drove around Japan looking for a Bluebird...

Post by BrandonS »

Byron510 wrote: 09 Apr 2020 08:14 The shot above, (with the back end of what I think is a CS Coupe) and the plane in the background is great. And what I really love about your car - it has the steel / chrome grill! Honestly I think they look way better. The car looks great, and the German plates are a nice touch too.

I'm not sold on the air ride from a performance point of view. But I do like the idea of having an air ride to "lift" the car over obstacles like speed bumps, entry into driveways over curbs, getting onto a hoist. This is something I have been considering. I just wonder what the whole system weighs and if it can run totally deflated.

Keep the posts coming.

Byron
Thanks, I'm a little more positive for the air suspension, but I'm also not naive to say it will be the best suspension ever or even so much that it will be better than what I have now. When I got the car it was running the coilover setup with ~625lb springs in the front, springs of unknown weights in the rear, Tokiko orange non-adjustables in front and Tokiko blue in the rear. I think that's what made me go this route. I can say that even with the stock swaybar the car would go around corners relatively flat, but that's where the positives ended. The front seemed like a very good spring rate for handling on the smoothest of roads, but it had no suspension travel. When I'd push the car I could feel that my tires were acting as the only compliance in the whole system. On less than ideal roads the springs were hard enough to make the front end skip during harder braking. That's the front, for the rear I was even more unhappy. The short of it is that it felt oversprung and under dampened.

So in any case, what I'm trying to do isn't so much the up and down that people usually get air suspension for. I'm approaching it as a variable spring rate system. This is very much an insane plan and maybe I'll just end up going back to the coil springs, but unless the handling is poorer than good I don't foresee that. So the plan of approach is to find the correct air pressures for, say, comfortable cruise, sporty, and then stiff (hopefully they can get stiff). Once I figure out those pressures I can adjust the ride height with the coilover sleeves so that the car isn't too low when in the stiff setting and isn't too high when in comfortable. The pictures of it in an "aired out" state are nice for Instagram and boards, but I seriously doubt the coilovers will sit in a spot to allow it. The main objective is to solely have the car at the proper height for everything to jive suspension wise when the air bags are adjusted to the best performing spring rate. If that happens at 1" of wheel gap, so be it. Once the bag pressure and ride height is adjusted for the correct spring rate for the setting I'm going to have servo motors turn the shocks to the setting that corresponds to that spring rate.

EDIT: I'm going to try and also do some dynamic, on the fly adjustments, but after posting how I had planned on doing this (as a mod I'm sure you can see my previous edit) I actually realized some errors in how I was handling that situation. Namely on a really bumpy road the car would have the opposite of what is intended. So back to the drawing board there.
User avatar
Byron510
Moderator
Posts: 12658
Joined: 01 Jul 2003 23:06
Location: Maple Ridge, BC

Re: So I drove around Japan looking for a Bluebird...

Post by Byron510 »

650 lbs/inch spring rate? Is that a typo?
I once tried a set of 350’s... it felt like I had no suspension what so ever... sold them to a guy running a full race set up on slicks.
But I’m certainly interested in following your build, do keep us posted

Byron
Love people and use things,
because the opposite never works.
BrandonS
Supporter
Posts: 95
Joined: 21 Feb 2016 19:32
Location: Germany

Re: So I drove around Japan looking for a Bluebird...

Post by BrandonS »

Byron510 wrote: 12 Apr 2020 00:42 650 lbs/inch spring rate? Is that a typo?
I once tried a set of 350’s... it felt like I had no suspension what so ever... sold them to a guy running a full race set up on slicks.
But I’m certainly interested in following your build, do keep us posted
Byron
Woops, no I looked them up again last night, but the website i referenced was wrong. I went to BC's actual site. They are a little less than 300. I think the most of the problem may have been shocks bottoming out. In any case though, the suspension was decent components, but ones that didn't all work together.

Also, thanks for all your input, your posts are among the ones I referenced frequently throughout all of this. I know the setup is nowhere near what you are most on here are running, but when it comes to things that can be addressed with the suspension it all relates.

Image
User avatar
bertvorgon
Supporter
Posts: 11998
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 20:45
Location: White Rock, B.C. Canada

Re: So I drove around Japan looking for a Bluebird...

Post by bertvorgon »

Did you then measure their compressed ride height to get your spring rate? .005 kg per MM compression.

350 springs are for road racing for sure, 250- 300 is a good rate for relatively hard use, depending on shock valving and tire loading.

Yes, most of us here in Vancouver run #300 .
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
BrandonS
Supporter
Posts: 95
Joined: 21 Feb 2016 19:32
Location: Germany

Re: So I drove around Japan looking for a Bluebird...

Post by BrandonS »

bertvorgon wrote: 12 Apr 2020 16:50 Did you then measure their compressed ride height to get your spring rate? .005 kg per MM compression.

350 springs are for road racing for sure, 250- 300 is a good rate for relatively hard use, depending on shock valving and tire loading.

Yes, most of us here in Vancouver run #300 .
No I didn't. I just used that number on them to reference it on BC's site. If the air doesn't work out and I have to go to coil springs, I'll make sure I get the exact rate then so I can judge for a different spring.
BrandonS
Supporter
Posts: 95
Joined: 21 Feb 2016 19:32
Location: Germany

Re: So I drove around Japan looking for a Bluebird...

Post by BrandonS »

A wordy update that'll be short on pictures. Everything was going smoothly, but now it's starting to kick my butt a little. My original plans have fallen through for the rear suspension so I need to reevaluate all of that.

I originally had a VLSD R160 that was slated to go in, but with the power I'm hoping to put down with the CA18DET I've been watching out for an R180 at a good price. I finally came across a Suretrack 3.54 unit for a good price ($350 shipped). I know most would go with smaller gears, but I think this is going to match the CA18DET swap nicely. I'm hoping it'll allow the engine to stay in boost a bit longer and should help with traction. After I got it, I had to rework my original plans I had for axles with the R160. I did a bunch of parts referencing and finalized the plans for the R180. I sourced bearings and hubs that would fit together in the stock bearing housing. It appeared that all I was going to have to do was shorten the bearing housing a little since the new hub was only 36mm wide. The plan was then to have the center CV axle shafts shortened at a local shop.

Well fast forward a few days and the hubs showed up. What a bummer, it didn't work out. I did this with the R160 axles and those hubs were a perfect match. The hubs have, in my opinion, too much play in the splines to work. They are both 31 spline, but these must be machined different than the Subaru axles, maybe it's a quality issue with the hubs as they weren't super expensive. What do you guys think? I'm thinking with this play the splines in the hub would probably shear under heavy load/torque of the new engine.

https://i.imgur.com/sGqiJzQ.mp4..

So after this, I checked with Ermish Racing for his Gen 2 CV kit, but they are out of stock and not projected to be restocked for a few months. I went over to Futofabs site, but he lists the larger axles as only R200 compatible. So with that being said, I shot TheDriveShaftShop an email about their 108mm setup. DSS got back to me and said it'd be about a month for them to be made and they should be good to about 600hp. This number is perfect for me, it's over what I plan by enough that I'd feel comfortable running them. I really don't want to spend that much or wait that long, but I'm thinking it checks all the boxes and will ultimately be the best solution. Any other suggestions before I take the plunge?

The next piece to sort out will be the adjustment part. I ordered spherical bearings along with matching housings. I plan to weld the housings onto the stock trailing arms. I also will need to replace the spring buckets with ones the ones that fit my airbags. Then I believe I will also try to clearance the arms a bit on the outside to help with larger tires. For the spherical bearings, I went with 16mm to beef it up a little so I will be on my own to do the tabs/adjustments. I like the penultimate kit and would like to duplicate that, but I cannot for the life of me find bolts with heads on them that have high of a profile to do the adjustment part.

So with all that going against me, I couldn't do anything on the back, so I decided to just go ahead and start on the brake pedal setup. I got the OEM pedal box removed today, which was a bit more involved than I had anticipated. After that all I was able to get started on the plate that will go into the firewall. I couldn't finish because the hole saw I have is 5mm too large and the next size down is 1mm too small (I may give it a go). I am feeling good about this setup though. I think the brackets to mount will be minimal fuss and the pedals should all fit in nicely.

Image

Image
BrandonS
Supporter
Posts: 95
Joined: 21 Feb 2016 19:32
Location: Germany

Re: So I drove around Japan looking for a Bluebird...

Post by BrandonS »

Well I put the firewall plate to the side today just to get an idea of how they'd fit by fitting them without master cylinders to the firewall. They do fit, but I'll need to move them over to the right about 1/8" to clear the steering column. The brake arm rubbed over so slightly once I hooked it back up to the steering box.

The two biggest problems I'm having right now are that I'd like the whole assembly to be lower and the throttle placment is difficult because of the wheel well (if I had LHD this would be easier). So next on the agenda will be fine tuning the placement. If I go lower I run into the steering column bracket on the firewall. I'll check tomorrow, but I may just share the top holes of the steering cover plate with the lower holes of the pedal box. I haven't looked at the bracket, but justmaking a new one that works with this setup is also an option. Right now though, the pedals and the pedal brackets are in the lowest adjustment holes for height. I'd like to avoid this so I can have some adjustability in the system. Hopefully it'll take minimum fussing around to get it ironed out; once placement is set I can start making the brackets to go to the stock mounting locations inside the dash.

Image
User avatar
Byron510
Moderator
Posts: 12658
Joined: 01 Jul 2003 23:06
Location: Maple Ridge, BC

Re: So I drove around Japan looking for a Bluebird...

Post by Byron510 »

Good progress.
I have installed these types of pedal boxes with roll cage fabrication, But often wondered if the installation could be done without a dash bar.
With the pedal box in, how will you now secure the steering column as the stock pedal box takes care of this as well... following.
Thanks for the COVID updates :-)

Byron
Love people and use things,
because the opposite never works.
BrandonS
Supporter
Posts: 95
Joined: 21 Feb 2016 19:32
Location: Germany

Re: So I drove around Japan looking for a Bluebird...

Post by BrandonS »

Byron510 wrote: 02 May 2020 04:52 Good progress.
I have installed these types of pedal boxes with roll cage fabrication, But often wondered if the installation could be done without a dash bar.
With the pedal box in, how will you now secure the steering column as the stock pedal box takes care of this as well... following.
Thanks for the COVID updates :-)

Byron
I hope it works out, but the plan is to unfortunately cut a hole in the firewall and then mount a new plate with the appropriate holes and a little more thickness. I haven’t decided the best approach to this. Cut a hole but run the plate bolted with a seal on the inside, basically the same design as the steering column or cut the opening and weld the plate in place flush so it looks “OE” so to say from the outside.

From there I weld and run square tubing from the firewall plate over the top mounting holes in the pedal box and then up to the stock mounting areas. Basically replicate the stock box but with square tubing.

Byron, by chance what size are the through bolts in your brackets. The ones the arms are mounted too? I went ahead and ordered 14mm ID misalignment spacers for my spherical bearings.
Post Reply