New swap-4G63T

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thisismatt
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Re: New swap-4G63T

Postby thisismatt » 27 Jun 2008 17:09

You may have shrunk/warped the housing when welding it. You should look into some 280zxt arms...they'd probably be a lot more friendly for what you're doing. It might even be the same bearing housing and caliper mount, since it has the larger outer bearing like the z31 housing in your pictures appears.
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icehouse
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Re: New swap-4G63T

Postby icehouse » 27 Jun 2008 22:43

thisismatt wrote:You may have shrunk/warped the housing when welding it. You should look into some 280zxt arms...they'd probably be a lot more friendly for what you're doing. It might even be the same bearing housing and caliper mount, since it has the larger outer bearing like the z31 housing in your pictures appears.



The z31 bearings fit in the 510 arm, I've put the z31 bearing in the zx arm which has the same wheel bearings as a 510. If we figure out how to do bolt on CV shafts we could actually do a bolt on 5 lug conversion!!

Sorry didn't mean to thread jack :D
I liked Hainz better...... Can we trade back?

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thisismatt
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Re: New swap-4G63T

Postby thisismatt » 27 Jun 2008 23:06

icehouse wrote:
thisismatt wrote:You may have shrunk/warped the housing when welding it. You should look into some 280zxt arms...they'd probably be a lot more friendly for what you're doing. It might even be the same bearing housing and caliper mount, since it has the larger outer bearing like the z31 housing in your pictures appears.



The z31 bearings fit in the 510 arm, I've put the z31 bearing in the zx arm which has the same wheel bearings as a 510. If we figure out how to do bolt on CV shafts we could actually do a bolt on 5 lug conversion!!

Sorry didn't mean to thread jack :D
The ZX must be different from the ZX turbo, because the ZX turbo has two different size bearings. Jeff's look to be the same, which wouldn't fit in a stock 510 arm.
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jeffball610
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Re: New swap-4G63T

Postby jeffball610 » 28 Jun 2008 14:56

The bearings are definitely two different sizes on the Z31 units. The outer bearing is larger outside and inside. The stub shaft is tapered, being larger on the outside than the inside.

I wouldn't doubt the hubs may have warped some, but I would think it would be manageable enough to slip the bearings in. I'll try to do some more work this next week. It will be my last efforts to get this thing working before I move out of state.
1972 Datsun 510
7-bolt 4G63T, EVO 9 pistons & rods, Garrett GT3076R, "Flipped" Stock Intake Manifold, Toyota R154, Z31 R200 w/ CVs

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thisismatt
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Re: New swap-4G63T

Postby thisismatt » 28 Jun 2008 15:01

Well they shouldn't slip in easily...they should be pressed (or squarely hammered ;) ) in. I like to use an old bearing to put the new one in - sometimes I'll even cut a notch in the old bearing outer race so it has a little bit of give, while still being able to push the new bearing's outside race.
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jeffball610
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Re: New swap-4G63T

Postby jeffball610 » 01 Jul 2008 21:25

Yeah, the bearings just needed some persuasion. The trailing arm just needs to be notched a little to clear the Z31 CV flanges. It's really close, but enough clearance to not cause issues. I'll take some pictures this week while I'm packing everything up. It will give me something to look at while the car is in storage. :cry:
1972 Datsun 510
7-bolt 4G63T, EVO 9 pistons & rods, Garrett GT3076R, "Flipped" Stock Intake Manifold, Toyota R154, Z31 R200 w/ CVs

jet510
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Re: New swap-4G63T

Postby jet510 » 22 Jul 2008 23:48

hey mate.. any updates.. very interested in seein how this swap goes as i am thinkin of doin the same thing with a 510 in australia..

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jeffball610
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Re: New swap-4G63T

Postby jeffball610 » 18 Aug 2008 15:37

The project is at a stand still. I just moved to Vegas from Colorado a month ago and I'm still looking for work. Money is tight, but I will definitely hold onto this project and finish it ASAP.

The swap is straight forward and anyone can do it. Just reverse the crossmember, get a bellhousing to mate the 4G63 to the R154, W55/58, GM TH350, or any other transmission. I got my bellhousing from Bill Hincher at http://www.billsautofab.com/ The clutch is just a Mitsubishi pressure plate and a Toyota 9" disk. More info on 4G63 swaps can be found at http://www.projectzerog.com/forum/index.php

You will need to do something for the intake manifold as the throttle body faces the wrong way. The turbo needs to be flipped 180 degrees. You will need to run some coolant lines from the rear of the head or put an adapter on the front of the head for coolant. And the rest is personal preference. But as you can see from my thread, there is very little cutting or fabbing needed to make this work. I would say it's as straight forward as an SR20 swap without the price tag. In AUS you can likely pick up an SR20 for less than here in the states, but it's much cheaper here in America to run a 4G63.
1972 Datsun 510
7-bolt 4G63T, EVO 9 pistons & rods, Garrett GT3076R, "Flipped" Stock Intake Manifold, Toyota R154, Z31 R200 w/ CVs

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Re: New swap-4G63T

Postby watts510 » 16 Jan 2009 11:32

updates please :D
I'd like to see how the rear end works for you with the z31 stuff.
Procrastinate now why wait for later ? :)

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jeffball610
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Re: New swap-4G63T

Postby jeffball610 » 17 Jan 2009 15:11

Wish I had something to update. The car has been sitting for 6 months completely untouched.

I moved out of state 6 months ago and money and garage space are tight. I'm moving places next weekend to a more spacious location. Hopefully I'll get some minor work done like running wires and things. I have a bunch of parts waiting to get bolted up.

I just need to get a mustache bar so I can check out the rear end situation. I know there's more than one member on here that has done the Z31 hubs. I'm not that original. 8)
1972 Datsun 510
7-bolt 4G63T, EVO 9 pistons & rods, Garrett GT3076R, "Flipped" Stock Intake Manifold, Toyota R154, Z31 R200 w/ CVs

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jeffball610
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Re: New swap-4G63T

Postby jeffball610 » 21 Dec 2009 13:00

I've actually done some work lately!

Well, not so much work, more just seeing what works and what I "need" to do. Here's some pics to show what I've been messing with.
Image
I got some S12 steering arms to go with my S12 struts to see if I could get around some of the custom bumpsteer spacers I'll need. As you can see the S12 units are much shorter than the stock 510 unit. They also do not have the steering stop and they mount somewhat at an angle on the ball-joint. The hole for the ball-joint is also somewhat larger than the stock 510 unit. I tried both on the left side of the car to see if they would work, and neither seems to be an option. Perhaps with the right ball-joint, they may work, but doubt it. The entire mounting surface is larger and doesn't leave much room for it to turn on the lower control arm. (don't know if any of this made sense)

Image
I'm also in the process of making a mustache bar for the Z31 R200. It doesn't look that hard. Why do people charge $200 for one of these things? The studs are physically much larger than the stock 510 units (duh) but seem to be about the same distance apart. It also mounts a little further back than the stock R160 and you need to trim some metal under there. How structural is that area? Will I need to reinforce it or can I just notch it? I guess if someone wanted to solid mount their diff, you could just put some holes in that piece.

I've also ordered some cheap 10mm wheel spacers. DO NOT DO THIS. These things were about $20 a pair and are "universal" 5 lug spacers. They fit like crap and I think they might crack if you torque down the wheels too much. But hey, at least they'll work for mock up. I don't think I will need them in the rear for my 16x7 Ford truck wheels I have with 195/55/16 tires.

I've got a long list of part numbers ready to order, but this time of year, cash it tight. I'll figure something out though, cause I really want to get this project moving forward. Just looking at what I "know" I need, I think $2500 would get this project on the road. I'm still well under my $10k budget and think I might have something to drive to Shasta next year if everything goes right. I'm crossing my fingers there's no hiccups. I'd love to see some of you guys at the meet next summer.

As always, more pics are on my Photobucket page.
http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u71/ ... 20Rebuild/
1972 Datsun 510
7-bolt 4G63T, EVO 9 pistons & rods, Garrett GT3076R, "Flipped" Stock Intake Manifold, Toyota R154, Z31 R200 w/ CVs

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okayfine
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Re: New swap-4G63T

Postby okayfine » 21 Dec 2009 14:34

jeffball610 wrote:I got some S12 steering arms to go with my S12 struts to see if I could get around some of the custom bumpsteer spacers I'll need. As you can see the S12 units are much shorter than the stock 510 unit. They also do not have the steering stop and they mount somewhat at an angle on the ball-joint. The hole for the ball-joint is also somewhat larger than the stock 510 unit.


Matt here was making or was thinking about making bumpsteer spacers to do that adaption. Maybe fire off a PM to him to see what his status is.
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goichi1
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Re: New swap-4G63T

Postby goichi1 » 21 Dec 2009 15:20

You can get the washers that will make up the difference in the strut housing recess, these come with the Datsport kit and I am sure you could order them from Baz, that will let you use the s12 strut with the stock ball joint. I bought a set of the bumpsteer spacers from Mattndew, they fit perfect, but I really don't think I needed them, the Datsport kit I used is supposed to remove the bumpsteer, but i used them anyway.

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jeffball610
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Re: New swap-4G63T

Postby jeffball610 » 23 Dec 2009 15:03

Finally a new part on the car!

Unfortunately it doesn't fit. I took some steel, some measurements and the old R160 mustache bar to a friend with a welder and we tried to make something work for this Z31 R200. The only issue we had was the holes for the diff studs were off about a 1/4" to one side in the piece we made. There wasn't enough room to make new holes, so I just cut a notch in the piece to make it work for now. That's what you have to deal with when taking parts from one location to another. I won't even post a picture, cause it's not worth it. At least it didn't cost me $200 like some vendors are selling this part for.

So the car is back on the ground sitting correctly for the first time since I got rid of the R160 and pulled the entire rear apart. That was about 2 years ago. The car looks nice, but I might want to raise the rear a little. The front sits a little higher on the Specialty Engineering springs I got with my S12 struts. There might also be a little positive camber on the front. But I don't dare lower the front any more, as I only have about 4.5" of ground clearance to the oil pan.

Now I can get to work on doing some brake and fuel lines. Still need to order new wheel bearings, and brake rotors to make it look like a car that could drive. There's a ton to do, so back to the internet searching for parts.
1972 Datsun 510
7-bolt 4G63T, EVO 9 pistons & rods, Garrett GT3076R, "Flipped" Stock Intake Manifold, Toyota R154, Z31 R200 w/ CVs

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m33pm33p
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Re: New swap-4G63T

Postby m33pm33p » 23 Dec 2009 15:43

Come on post a pic;), I do agree, $250 is too much for $10 worth of flat iron and pipe.


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