5-speed L-series transmission ID

Engine, Transmission and related drivetrain.
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okayfine
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5-speed L-series transmission ID

Postby okayfine » 26 Feb 2011 15:14

So, with the new DQ Transmission ID article out by datzenmike, I took the issue into the garage to ID the trans I got with my L20B bits.

Only I didn't get very far. The typical FS5W71B is said to have ribbing on the bellhousing and main case. My trans is smooth. It is the early B with the 12 o'clock speedo pinion attachment point, and has yoke/spline output.

IMG_3060.JPG
IMG_3060.JPG (159.49 KiB) Viewed 4819 times


Numbers on the top of the bellhousing are 5710 223, with a vertical

F
I
T
Z

to the left of the numbers. It's an L-series trans, has gates for 6 positions (5 + R), and has a Z-car mount on it. Was said to come from a 260Z, but even the FS5C71B shown in the article has ribbing on the bellhousing half.

Thoughts?
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datzenmike
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Re: 5-speed L-series transmission ID

Postby datzenmike » 26 Feb 2011 19:23

I think there are only two with a smooth case and bell housing, the CA and the dogleg. It's a long dogleg perhaps? Doglegs don't have any switches in the main body but only in the tail.

Image

It also has Z car ish mounts. Since the article I have found out that the 610 built New Zealand had a 5 speed option. The stock 610 used a long 4 speed so this would fit the stock driveshaft and shift hole in the car. This was also just before the newer FS5W71B came out in '77 and they have to come from somewhere, so maybe they had them in Japan. If so, it's no big stretch to suppose they were left bolted to import motors and brought into N Am..

Place in 'first' and turn the input shaft and see if the output reverses....
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Re: 5-speed L-series transmission ID

Postby okayfine » 27 Feb 2011 11:12

datzenmike wrote: It's a long dogleg perhaps?

Place in 'first' and turn the input shaft and see if the output reverses....


Yeah, you win. Long dogleg. How...unfortunate. Is it too much to hope that since it's in the long case the gears are bigger (stronger) than the 200sx L-series dogleg?

Jeepers, RHD and a dogleg shift pattern :shock:
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Re: 5-speed L-series transmission ID

Postby datzenmike » 27 Feb 2011 13:23

Yes.




.... it's too much to hope for. Any history on it? I still don't know for sure where they are from. They were never used here. I have several pictures, four with yours, so they are likely imported on motors is my guess.
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Re: 5-speed L-series transmission ID

Postby jason » 27 Feb 2011 14:04

I have been told that those long doglegs came from diesel pickups, but, I've never seen a diesel pickup either?
Jason

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Re: 5-speed L-series transmission ID

Postby okayfine » 27 Feb 2011 14:44

Doubly unfortunate. L-series doglegs aren't known for strength, and while I'll only have a low-pressure L20BT, I gotta figure that'd kill a normal dogleg in short order. If this is no better, it'll be no different.

No history on this long dogleg, other than it supposedly came from a 260Z. But it wasn't advertised as a dogleg as far as I can recall, so...

I do have a KA24DE trans that has been gone through. I may have to go with some tilted trans action.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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Re: 5-speed L-series transmission ID

Postby datzenmike » 27 Feb 2011 17:38

jason wrote:I have been told that those long doglegs came from diesel pickups, but, I've never seen a diesel pickup either?


Maybe some JDM diesel. The SD22 and SD25 in the 720 had the starter on the other side.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

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Re: 5-speed L-series transmission ID

Postby rc240z » 28 Feb 2011 18:34

A diesel pickup has the starter on the wrong side and would not work in a Z car. Chances are this is something else...
Ron C

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Racing a 1967 Datsun 2000
Caring for a BRE #46 240Z Tribute car

See my Blog at rcnetworksracing.com

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Re: 5-speed L-series transmission ID

Postby datzenmike » 28 Feb 2011 20:08

okayfine wrote:Doubly unfortunate. L-series doglegs aren't known for strength, and while I'll
I do have a KA24DE trans that has been gone through. I may have to go with some tilted trans action.


All you need is an L front case from an FS5W71B swapped onto the DE tranny. Change the front counter bearing and drill the shift fork hole out and it will sit without a tilt.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

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Re: 5-speed L-series transmission ID

Postby James » 28 Feb 2011 20:11

I think I have one of these as well. I'll have to pull it out (the tranny - along with my head) this weekend to compare notes.
I'll post a pic of it....
Finished is better than perfect......

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Dave Patten
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Re: 5-speed L-series transmission ID

Postby Dave Patten » 01 Mar 2011 05:25

Julian and I have been PM'ing regards to his long case dogleg.

I suggested to him it might have been a dealer upgrade to the 260Z it allegedly came out of. That raised further questions in my mind.

The dealer install 5 speed gearboxes of the mid '70's were either the roadster 5 speed with a flanged output and an early 3 piece bell housing from the 240Z swapped onto it (not what is in the photo) or they were 2 piece case dogleg "comp boxes" sold thru Datsun Comp. The earlier ones were OD doglegs in wide and close ratios and the later ones had direct drive 1:1 5ths in 4 different ratios. All the "comp boxes" had steel synchros and were 71 series.

My question is what series dogleg is Julian's 63 or 71.

datzenmike,
Do you know if the NZ 610 long dogleg 5 speed was a 63 or 71 series transmission?

The 63 or 71 series designation comes from the distance between main and lay shafts in the transmission in millimeters. If unknown it can be measured from the centerlines of the bearing registers in the front cover/T-O bearing guide.

If the transmission Julian has is a 71 series, it should be strong enough for his plans.

Dogleg doesn't mean week if it is a 71 series comp box.
Dave Patten
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Dunbarton, NH

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Re: 5-speed L-series transmission ID

Postby datzenmike » 01 Mar 2011 06:39

The two boxes you are referring to were the over drive competition FS5C71B and the direct drive competition F5C71B? I'm not aware either had a dogleg shift pattern.

Doesn't Kieth Law have one of these, with steel synchros, in his red car? (going from memory here) He's never mentioned the shift pattern.

New Zealand assembled 610s had a 5 speed option not offered here. I've seen pictures of the shifters only and it 'appeared' to have a R symbol with a circle above 1st. Not definitive proof I know but what else was available around the mid 70s? If these were the FS5W63As similar to the N Am 200sx they may have been long as the 610 did use a long 4 speed and automatic. Makes sense that the 5 speed would also be long too. Projecting further... IF these were long doglegs (similar to julian's) they would be available in Japan where they came from and may have been attached to imported motors in the '80s.

Crap, I have to go to work. Would like to hear more about this.

mike
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Re: 5-speed L-series transmission ID

Postby okayfine » 01 Mar 2011 07:22

Casting on the side says "63A #1". I will measure to verify once it warms up a bit.

Seller says it lived behind his 3.1L L6 with no issues.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

rc240z
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Re: 5-speed L-series transmission ID

Postby rc240z » 01 Mar 2011 08:41

All the direct drive comp gearboxes are dog leg boxes. Casting numbers on the bell housing are not going to help you sort out what this is, or figure out the gear ratios. Comp gearboxes came in both smooth and ribbed cases, the only way to know for sure is to split the case, count gears and confirm that there are steel syncros in this gearbox. Brass syncros, or overdrive gearbox and you have something other than a comp box.

This is not the early comp (companion flange gearbox), the early comp (roadster gearboxes) are not dog leg boxes and they have the "A" series shifter. There are a couple of strange possibilities...

As for durability, the comp boxes are pretty tough, but we see racing 510's eat them periodically...
Last edited by rc240z on 01 Mar 2011 08:49, edited 1 time in total.
Ron C

Restoring a fast 510
Racing a 1967 Datsun 2000
Caring for a BRE #46 240Z Tribute car

See my Blog at rcnetworksracing.com

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Dave Patten
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Re: 5-speed L-series transmission ID

Postby Dave Patten » 01 Mar 2011 08:49

datzenmike wrote:The two boxes you are referring to were the over drive competition FS5C71B and the direct drive competition F5C71B? I'm not aware either had a dogleg shift pattern.
mike


datzenmike,
I would assume the OD comp boxes were the same shift pattern as the DD comp boxes. I have owned all 4 ratios of direct drive comp boxes and they were all dogleg patterns. It is sweet for racing, no ugly 4-5 shift. Very few times would you ever use 1st on the track so the complex dogleg 2-1 down shift is avoided. Makes it a simple 2-5 "H" pattern.

okayfine wrote:Casting on the side says "63A #1". I will measure to verify once it warms up a bit.

Seller says it lived behind his 3.1L L6 with no issues.


Okayfine,
I'd say the casting number verifies it as a 63 series. Sounds like a very odd beast. I would take the seller's 3.1L-L6 comments under consideration. It may well mean, that it just hasn't been broken and is likely to in the near future due to past usage.
Dave Patten
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Dunbarton, NH


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