Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180

Engine, Transmission and related drivetrain.
Dayton12
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Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180

Postby Dayton12 » 10 Sep 2012 18:31

Anyone happen to know Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180. Also what about the half shafts can I use the older style of half shafts....

thanks

Dayton

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RonM
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Re: Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180

Postby RonM » 10 Sep 2012 18:56

The Subi R180 out of the 04-07 WRX sti uses 27 spine stub ends, and Datsun is 25 so that dif requires custom adapter stubs. Bata motor sports makes them for $500. There are other Subaru models that have an R180, as long as it;s an early model it will have 25 spline stubs. As for the half shafts the R180 is 1 inch wider than the stock 510 R160. The R160 and early R180 use the same stub axles, but the R160 has a narrower case, so it needs to use a longer dust cap flange. (Left – R160, Right – R180). Just get the Datsun R180 stubs and you're good to go.
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Re: Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180

Postby okayfine » 11 Sep 2012 06:32

Dayton12 wrote:Anyone happen to know Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180. Also what about the half shafts can I use the older style of half shafts....


As Ron indicates, WHICH specific diffs you're talking about will make all the difference. Have you found Kurt Hafer's Subaru LSD FAQ?
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

Dayton12
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Re: Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180

Postby Dayton12 » 11 Sep 2012 07:50

Here is what I am trying to do...

Take the 3.13 gears from the R180 front axle Xterra and put them into a R180 rear differential. I am have been looking for a cheap donor R180 from an earlier Z car (I dont want the clip in side axles).

I have access to some nice free Subaru R180S. I also have a r160 Nissan from a 73 510 that use to be in my car. Could I use the 510 R160 side internal stubs and swap into the Subaru R180 to give me the right spline type and count? I think the R160 and r180 internal side axle stubs (what is the proper term for these) are the same.

Any comments or experience from others?

Thanks

Dayton

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RonM
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Re: Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180

Postby RonM » 11 Sep 2012 09:30

Dayton12 wrote:Here is what I am trying to do...

Take the 3.13 gears from the R180 front axle Xterra and put them into a R180 rear differential. I am have been looking for a cheap donor R180 from an earlier Z car (I dont want the clip in side axles).

I have access to some nice free Subaru R180S. I also have a r160 Nissan from a 73 510 that use to be in my car. Could I use the 510 R160 side internal stubs and swap into the Subaru R180 to give me the right spline type and count? I think the R160 and r180 internal side axle stubs (what is the proper term for these) are the same.

Any comments or experience from others?

Thanks

Dayton

If this is what you wanted to know why didn't you give this information in the OP? :roll: R160 and R180 internals are not compatible. If the Subi R180 is early {pre 04) they are already 25 spline. If it is 27 spline it's not free.
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Dayton12
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Re: Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180

Postby Dayton12 » 11 Sep 2012 11:32

Thanks, but are you sure that the 180 and 160 side gears (not sure of the proper name) inside the diffy where the half shafts attach to are not the same. I am talking about a Nissan early (1973) R180 and R 160 and just these side shafts?

Sorry I just want to clarify...

Thanks

Dayton

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RonM
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Re: Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180

Postby RonM » 11 Sep 2012 15:06

Dayton12 wrote:Could I use the 510 R160 side internal stubs (side gear) and swap into the Subaru R180 to give me the right spline type and count?


Then
Dayton12 wrote:Thanks, but are you sure that the 180 and 160 side gears (not sure of the proper name) inside the diffy where the half shafts attach to are not the same. I am talking about a Nissan early (1973) R180 and R 160 and just these side shafts?
What do you mean by "side shafts"?

The Stub End, stub axles, or Spline Stud seats inside the Side Gear. The R160 and R180 Side Gears are not inter changeable. And yes, I'm sure of it.

If you are talking about swapping side gears in order to get the right spline count, there is no need. With the exception of the WRX R180 dif these are all 25 spline.

Google man.
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Dayton12
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Re: Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180

Postby Dayton12 » 12 Sep 2012 11:26

Thanks your the man .... Ron.. greatly appreciated.

Dayton

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StrutlessWonder
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Re: Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180

Postby StrutlessWonder » 12 Sep 2012 22:56

Dayton,

Subie Diffs R Us here,

It sounds like Ron may have given you what you need, but just in case you need more info, check these out:
http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/top ... iff-mount/

And my ancient Subaru LSD Diff FAQ:
http://kmhafer.datsun510.com/Subaru.htm

Ron is correct that all Datsun/Nissan/Subaru (Hitachi) R160/R180 diffs had 25T splines up through the early '80s.
R160s are 3-pinion, R180s come in weak 2-pinion versions and smuch stronger 4-pinion units.

Then in the mid '80s the Hitachi K-case R180s came along (some '84-'88 Nissan 200SXs) and Subie WRX STi, and these have 27T splined stubs.
Depending on the year, STi R180s can be cLSD or Torsen units, and can be found with either 3.54 or 3.90 ratios.

To use these you either have to use the $500/pr Beta Motorsports 27T stubs (with stock halfshafts or WCR CVs, Troy Ermish CVs, or Driveshaft shop CVs or homebrew CVs) or find a set of Aussie/NZ short-nosed R180 cLSD stubs (see below), or you have to custom-fabbed STi CV axles and hubs. Mixing/matching Subie inner CVs and Nissan outer CVs on the same axle has failed to work under at least two 510s (ask Brad and Eric).

All OEM Subaru R160 LSDs since 1991 are viscous R-160 units (Note: No U.S. Subarus between 1995 and 1999 came with LSDs).
IIRC, some of the 14,257 '92-'97 Subie SVX R180s (also 27T-splined), may have had useless vLSD units, not cLSDs. I think most were 3.54s, a ratio that doesn't work well unless you have some HP and TQ. All subie/Nissan vLSDs require one stub to be longer than the other to fully engage the vLSD unit inside the carrier.
Nissan R200s are 29T-splined (IIRC) and 4-pinion.

As an aside for our Aussie/NZ members:
Non-USDM Nissan short-nose R180s from NA CA-motored S13s or R30 skylines or U13 Attesas (AWD, turbo, early '90s Altima equiv) from JDM or Aussie/NZ markets came with 27T splined stubs that snap into an STi R180, but I searched for 2 years and was never able to find a set. If you DO find a set, they can be re-drilled and tapped in the Type II VW CV bolt pattern and can use WCRs CV kit WITHOUT having to use the machined aluminum adapter/spacers, as the stubs are about 1" longer than what we're used to.
4WD D21/Pathy frt R180s are also 27T, but I personally tried these stubs at the dealers, and they won't work in an STi R180.

Further complicating things is that early R180s up until '76 had 110mm ring gears, while '77 and later have 115mm ring gears.
Early carriers should be used with early ring gears, and late with late.

One swap you CAN do is change the "buttons" inside the diff to covert between bolt-in and c-clip snap-in stubs.
The Hybridz link above explains how.
Good Luck!
Kurt Hafer
'70 2dr VG30et "Strutless Wonder"

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Byron510
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Re: Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180

Postby Byron510 » 12 Sep 2012 23:23

Wow, the above post should become a sticky.

Thanks man.

Byron
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because the opposite never works.

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StrutlessWonder
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Re: Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180

Postby StrutlessWonder » 13 Sep 2012 01:06

You are most welcome, Byron!

Subie LSDs are an area of interest, and it's nice to know that some of the 30+ years of Datsun info I've acquired is actually useful and relevant to others.
We're all in this together, and now this info is searchable by others should the need arise.
Now I've just got over 8100 postings to catch up to you...
Kurt Hafer
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Dayton12
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Re: Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180

Postby Dayton12 » 13 Sep 2012 10:13

Great info..... but let me see if there is a simple answer or educated guess...


If I wanted to try putting in the 3.13 gear set from an Xtera from drive unit (R180 version) into a Nissan / Datsun R180 without using the circlip type for the stubs as my custom modified earlier year 1/2 shafts bolt onto the stub axles in the differential--

what R180 should I shoot for.... My guess would be the earlier Z cars with the R180....

Thanks

Dayton

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StrutlessWonder
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Re: Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180

Postby StrutlessWonder » 13 Sep 2012 14:20

I'm guessing here...So you might want to google the xterra forums for answers.
Hard core off-roaders have probably tried this already.

Your 3.13 xterra frt R180 is probably a 27T-splined unit, so you are probably out of luck using your 25T halfshafts.
You can count splines, test fit stubs, etc, just to be sure.

If, by chance the xterra 3.13 is a 25T unit, then I think you would want to use a '77 or newer 115mm ring geared, 25T-splined, bolt-in stubbed R180. Then swap in your R&P and install/use the threaded buttons to allow for use of your existing, bolt-in halfshafts. Keep us posted.
Kurt Hafer
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Re: Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180

Postby datzenmike » 13 Sep 2012 16:59

Dayton12 wrote:Here is what I am trying to do...

Take the 3.13 gears from the R180 front axle Xterra and put them into a R180 rear differential. I am have been looking for a cheap donor R180 from an earlier Z car (I dont want the clip in side axles).


Any comments or experience from others?



Yes I have a comment... same as your other post...

datzenmike wrote:The front R-180 diffs in the Xterra were 4.375 I believe.

P265/65R17s and 3.13 gears????? off road????


No way in hell an Xterra runs 3.13 ratio gears. You'd better do some research about this or you'll be crying later. Hey, I could be wrong but you'll have to show me.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

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StrutlessWonder
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Re: Is the Subaru R180 the same as the Nissan / Datsun R180

Postby StrutlessWonder » 14 Sep 2012 01:43

No way in hell an Xterra runs 3.13 ratio gears. You'd better do some research about this or you'll be crying later. Hey, I could be wrong but you'll have to show me.


I know you are almost never, ever wrong, but here you go...two ads w/ pictures.
I was too lazy to search FAST for a part number.

Google "xterra R180 3.13", click images:
http://www.xterranation.org/showthread. ... sion-Stuff
or
http://www.thenewx.org/forum/showthread.php?t=34158

Some folks like to swap a 3.36 or 3.69 into them.
But I still have no idea if Dayton's swap might work.
Kurt Hafer
'70 2dr VG30et "Strutless Wonder"


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