5 Speed swap parts list?

Engine, Transmission and related drivetrain.
Button
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5 Speed swap parts list?

Postby Button » 30 Dec 2016 13:55

Hey guys I got a 1980 280zx 5-speed that I am going to swap in to my car And I wanted to know with out doing a full rebuild what parts I should replace in the transmission while I have out it. I bought a new cross member from T3, I already have a shortened driveline, I have a new Exedy 225mm clutch that came with the car and matching flywheel, and I have a new clutch master cylinder. I did a bunch of reading on the site and his is what I came up with.

- pilot bushing for the motor
- throw out bearing
- throw out bearing sleeve? (Do I need this or can I reuse the one I have, which is the correct size. I wasn't sure if this is a wear item)
- output shaft seal
- new shifter bushing since it doesn't have one
- get the flywheel turned?

Am I missing anything that you guys would recommend to replace before installing it?

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Re: 5 Speed swap parts list?

Postby datzenmike » 30 Dec 2016 21:05

Should have a pilot in it but definitely replace it. Only $5
Replace the rear trans seal, again $5
Get a new release bearing $15
The release bearing sleeve must match the clutch you are using, in this case 225mm. If your old clutch was 225mm then you're ok, but if going from a 200mm it won't work.
Have the flywheel surfaced just for good measure $30-$50
Shifter bushing are always a good idea.

I'm running GM Delco Friction Modified Synchromesh Transmission Oil. Lordco is cheaper than the GM dealer (they are total idiots) Two liters here is about $36 CDN. I'm having very good results with it over the thick stock 80w90 GL4 oil. It's way faster shifting, way easier shifting and now my zx 5 speed downshifts! No noticeable changes even running it in -5C temperatures.

To remove the old pilot slit it lengthwise with hammer and screwdriver in 3 places fold inward and fish out the pieces. It's just powdered bronze and very soft. Takes longer to write hoe to do than to do it. Tap new one in with block of wood... remember it's soft.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

Button
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Re: 5 Speed swap parts list?

Postby Button » 31 Dec 2016 09:56

Thank you for the thorough list Mike, and thanks for the recommendation about the trains fluid, I was meaning to sort that out as well.

As fas as flywheels go for performance should I get a 200mm (L16?) Flywheel and clutch? Do people go with smaller/lighter flywheels so they rev up quicker?

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Re: 5 Speed swap parts list?

Postby datzenmike » 31 Dec 2016 22:38

L20B uses a 6 bolt flywheel so the 5 bolt L16/18 wheels won't fit.

L (and Z series) flywheels come in 200mm, 225mm and 240mm but this has nothing to do with weight or size. It has everything to do with clutch disc diameter. It's merely a bolt pattern that allows the correct pressure plate to fit. If you have a 225mm flywheel it just means that it will take a 225mm PP and clutch disc. A larger wheel will hold a larger 'stronger' pressure plate.

Now, I've measured many L flywheels and they tend to fall into two different weights, 29 and 21 pounds. The engine side on the 21 pound is scalloped and has less material that the 29 pound one. The heavier wheel is used with 4 cylinder trucks. The lighter wheels with larger displacement 4 or 6 cylinder engines or lighter cars. Heavier wheels store more spinning energy which makes a take off from a start easier (like in a truck with a load)

L20Bs flywheels that are 225mm are from trucks so probably 29 pounds. Probably. I had a 280z 225mm wheel and it was 21 pounds... larger engine needs less flywheel weight.

L20Bs from cars are 200mm and likely 21 pounds. (same engine but lighter car does not need as much weight)

If you have a 225mm wheel look on the engine side...

Both of these are engine side.

29 pound
Image

21 pound
Image

If yours isn't 21 pound, you might look for one. As I said I did have a 280zx 225mm 21 pound. Truth is it doesn't matter that much. You can buy lighter ones like 16 pound but as it stores less spinning energy you have to rev and slip the clutch more than if you have the correct one. Yes a lighter wheel needs less energy from the engine to accelerate it up to speed and the energy 'saved' can be used to accelerate the car but in stop and go town driving it's more work for you.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

Button
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Re: 5 Speed swap parts list?

Postby Button » 01 Jan 2017 07:09

Wow, thank you Mike for that thorough write up. I guess you do learn something new everyday. I've heard/read people talking about the different flywheels but wasn't sure what the differences were, and why they wanted different weights until now. I will be checking mine out when I head back out in the garage.

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Re: 5 Speed swap parts list?

Postby Byron510 » 01 Jan 2017 10:09

Most often the 200mm clutch is used because it is lighter and you can use the Roadster pressure plate which has the highest clamping force of all clutches available from Nissan. A win-win situation.

However roadster clutches are now extinct I believe, with no more available from Nissan.

Byron
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bertvorgon
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Re: 5 Speed swap parts list?

Postby bertvorgon » 01 Jan 2017 10:33

That is correct, NLA now. I got one of the last through Glen for a spare. I think James grabbed one also.
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Re: 5 Speed swap parts list?

Postby Button » 01 Jan 2017 12:42

I guess you learn multiple new things everyday. I appreciate the info guys.

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Re: 5 Speed swap parts list?

Postby datzenmike » 01 Jan 2017 12:44

If you want clamp....

A later 720 Z24truck flywheel will fit and they are all 240mm. You can use any 240mm flywheel from the Z24 720 or the D21 Hardbody and use the PP and clutch from a 300zx turbo. These are known as the 'White Bunny' upgrade for the 240zx (which came with a 225mm wheel. You could have the flywheel lightened.

300zx turbo PP....... 3020-P9600 ... $120.... 600Kg
300zx turbo disc.... 30100-21P00.... $90

I think the 225mm is more than enough for stock use and you already have one. You could spend the money having it lightened. But how worth it is it really?
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

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Re: 5 Speed swap parts list?

Postby qwik510 » 01 Jan 2017 15:58

datzenmike wrote:L20B uses a 6 bolt flywheel so the 5 bolt L16/18 wheels won't fit.

L (and Z series) flywheels come in 200mm, 225mm and 240mm but this has nothing to do with weight or size. It has everything to do with clutch disc diameter. It's merely a bolt pattern that allows the correct pressure plate to fit. If you have a 225mm flywheel it just means that it will take a 225mm PP and clutch disc. A larger wheel will hold a larger 'stronger' pressure plate.

Now, I've measured many L flywheels and they tend to fall into two different weights, 29 and 21 pounds. The engine side on the 21 pound is scalloped and has less material that the 29 pound one. The heavier wheel is used with 4 cylinder trucks. The lighter wheels with larger displacement 4 or 6 cylinder engines or lighter cars. Heavier wheels store more spinning energy which makes a take off from a start easier (like in a truck with a load)

L20Bs flywheels that are 225mm are from trucks so probably 29 pounds. Probably. I had a 280z 225mm wheel and it was 21 pounds... larger engine needs less flywheel weight.

L20Bs from cars are 200mm and likely 21 pounds. (same engine but lighter car does not need as much weight)

If you have a 225mm wheel look on the engine side...

Both of these are engine side.

29 pound
Image

21 pound
Image

If yours isn't 21 pound, you might look for one. As I said I did have a 280zx 225mm 21 pound. Truth is it doesn't matter that much. You can buy lighter ones like 16 pound but as it stores less spinning energy you have to rev and slip the clutch more than if you have the correct one. Yes a lighter wheel needs less energy from the engine to accelerate it up to speed and the energy 'saved' can be used to accelerate the car but in stop and go town driving it's more work for you.



This should be a Sticky. Great info to archive. Nice write up as usual Mike!
Enjoy The Ride!
David
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qwik510
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Re: 5 Speed swap parts list?

Postby qwik510 » 01 Jan 2017 15:59

bertvorgon wrote:That is correct, NLA now. I got one of the last through Glen for a spare. I think James grabbed one also.



I stashed one away a few years back too :D
Enjoy The Ride!
David
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RMS
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Re: 5 Speed swap parts list?

Postby RMS » 01 Jan 2017 16:34

I have found 6 different length throw out bearing retainer sleeves. with the shortest one made of plastic :shock:

if your not producing the hp for power oversteer, install a heavy flywheel for fun with compression skids :mrgreen:
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datzenmike
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Re: 5 Speed swap parts list?

Postby datzenmike » 12 Jan 2017 07:59

I probably have a dozen of the collars collected. There may be doubles but seems like most are slightly different from each other. There will be at least one from a 200mm clutch and two from a 240mm and the rest are 225mm clutches even one from a diesel 720. I'm kicking my self for not tagging then so I know what they are from. What I should do is pull the bearings off and clean and measure them.

I think the there were many different lengths of collars even within a 225m pressure plate range. There is no one, 200mm collar. I think the 200mm pressure plate in my 710 (L20B) will not be the same as a 510 L16 200mm clutch. The 225 was used with L18s, L20B, Z22, SD diesels and even the KA engines. Unlikely one PP will serve the needs of all those.

The collar's function is simply to position all clutch arms in the same position in the bell housing. I did find a reference that specified the distance from the flywheel surface to the clutch arm. I believe it was 'about' 90mm, but don't quote me. If you know the height to the diaphragm finger tips where the release bearing rides against you can calculate the correct collar length needed for any PP used.

So, if you measure flywheel friction surface, to diaphragm finger height, and get about 50mm this remainder is the collar length plus the protruding bearing. What does it stick out? a few mm's ??? The collar you would need for your stock 510 200mm clutch would be about 40mm. Indeed the collar for the 510 stock 200 mm PP is 38.5mm long. (plus the few mm's for the bearing)

Now, I noticed something here. I've always assumed that a lager PP diameter was 'taller' so a shorter collar would be used. Seems that this may not be right. 200mm collars tend toward being longer as the years went by. From 38.5mm to 54.5mm.... One 200mm collar is actually shared by a 225mm PP another with a 240mmPP... go figure.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

Button
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Re: 5 Speed swap parts list?

Postby Button » 23 Mar 2017 00:40

Well I bought the output seal, the pilot bearing, and the throw out bearing and sleeve but before I throw the transmission in the car I few more questions.

1) As best as I can tell by the research I did it's a 280zx 5 speed but I wanted to confirm. I bought the transmission from a guy that had an MG he was going to put it in so he didn't know much about it. It had the blue tape with the info when he bought it. I did the test awhile ago where you put it in the certain gear and rotate the input shaft X number of times and count how many rotations the output shaft did and I don't remember the rotations but it did not match exactly what the tape said. Can anyone tell from the photos.
Transmission_03.JPG
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Transmission_02.JPG
Transmission_02.JPG (40.01 KiB) Viewed 243 times

Transmission_01.JPG
Transmission_01.JPG (36.28 KiB) Viewed 243 times


2) The transmission didn't come with a shifter, will this one work or do I need the kind with the big plastic inserts?
Transmission_04.JPG
Transmission_04.JPG (29.82 KiB) Viewed 243 times


3) I am going to be running a GPS speedo. Does anyone have any ideas for a cap to cover the speed hole or do I just attach an old speedo cable and cut the cable near the tranny?

4)Does anyone know where to purchase a brass, or steel shifter bushing kit? I ordered the hinge bushings that are talked about here http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/shif ... index.html but they are bigger in diameter than the 8.8 mm pin. I ordered the part number but it's a Dorman product so perhaps that is the issue but regardless those won't work so I am looking for another solution.

5) Does anyone know if that sensor or switch with the wires hanging out of the passenger side of the tranny, is a neutral safety switch or a reverse switch? I have a bunch of 510 manuals but not a 280zx manual so I wasn't able to look this up.

Thanks.

Chris

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Re: 5 Speed swap parts list?

Postby datzenmike » 23 Mar 2017 20:22

Image

Definitely an '80 or newer L series FS5W71B 5 speed.
If an '80 zx it will have a 3.062 first gear and a 0.773 5th.
If an '81-'83 it will have a 3.062 first and a 0.745 5th.

Place in first and turn input 20 times while counting to output.
6.5 turns is a 3.062 first (close ratio) '80-83 non turbo zx
6.0 turns is a 3.321 first (mid ratio) '80-'84 810/Maxima
5.5 turns is a 3.592 first (wide ratio) '80 720 2wd truck

These are the only L series five speeds available from '80 on.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs


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