CV Failure

Engine, Transmission and related drivetrain.
Three B's Racing
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CV Failure

Postby Three B's Racing » 05 Jul 2017 07:00

So I've had CV axles in my 510 for 3 years 18k miles and had the drivers side inner CV fail on me driving back from Candy due to lube had been getting tossed out from between the boot and CV over this period of time on the 510. I asked Troy about the failure and he recommended you service them yearly as in remove and regrease, he also mentioned it's possible something was between the sealing surfaces but I can assure you they were clean prior to assembly but you never know. A yearly service to me seems very extreme when you think about CV's lasting 10's of thousands of miles on 98% of vehicles out there and I'm not going to service them yearly because to me that means there's a known issue. I asked if there's supposed to be a gasket between the boot and CV to keep from leaking and he said no but recommended some sort of sealant. If you have his CV kit do you service them yearly or do they leak any? Dave at Futofab has CV's and I'll be picking some up and he also has the metal two bolt tabs for a flat positive sealing of the boot to the CV which I will also be picking up. Hope no one has had this issue.
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icehouse
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Re: CV Failure

Postby icehouse » 05 Jul 2017 10:30

Damn!!!!!!! The first thing I did with my CV's is go over a big as bump bottoming out my exhaust which then hit the CV adapter ripping off the grease fitting...... Figures after spending all the $$ right... I better check mine out! Thanks for the tip!
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eastbaysolo_73
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Re: CV Failure

Postby eastbaysolo_73 » 05 Jul 2017 12:03

Good to know. I wasn't aware that you had to service them yearly either. Sounds like a big pain in the ass. Im gonna look into futofabs as well.
Nor Cal Meng !

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TheHeretic
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Re: CV Failure

Postby TheHeretic » 05 Jul 2017 15:16

I have Troy's new improved kit (not sure if that means they will last longer?) but he did tell me that they should be regreased every year or so. BUT the job sounded more like simple maintenance with 10 squirts using a grease gun to each grease fitting once a year. Don't know why the Futofab ones wouldn't require the same type of attention?
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okayfine
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Re: CV Failure

Postby okayfine » 05 Jul 2017 16:50

OE CVs don't require yearly service. What brand of CV is Troy supplying? I used Lobro CVs and boots in Whitebird, but I never did the miles Lou does on his car.

If you're putting ten pumps of a grease gun into each CV every year, I'd really, really wonder where all that CV grease is going.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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toylet
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Re: CV Failure

Postby toylet » 05 Jul 2017 22:56

Driveshaftshop has the best kit for 510. Don't waste your money on futofab or troys kits.

Three B's Racing
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Re: CV Failure

Postby Three B's Racing » 06 Jul 2017 05:07

CV_1341.jpg
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Adap_1342.jpg
Adap_1342.jpg (123.59 KiB) Viewed 358 times
Troy's and Futofab kits are good kits don't get me wrong. The point I was making is about the suggested yearly maintenance from Troy which like I said seemed crazy when you think about CVs on cars that stay put for 10's of thousands of miles plus I'm not about to spend the cost of these CV kits (dang already did 8>O to have to cut the safety wire and remove the axles to maintenance the things then rewire yearly why add even more work? The CV's are Empi type II and are good units for the money as compared to Driveshaftshops which are killer kits for high hp 510s. In the end it wasn't a crappy CV/Kit that failed, it was the fact that grease had been flung out of the CV from between the boot and the CV seal now how'd that happen? because there was no obstruction in that seal it flung out Symmetrically from around the BOOT/CV. Futofab has what I need along with two bolt hold downs that distribute the clamping force around the boot evenly, so this is what I'll do. But this happens again and I'm getting rid of this kit and put back in my rebuilt dogbones that never ever gave me an issue.
"Lastnight the wife said oh boy when your dead you can't take nothing with you but your soul oh "Think"
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okayfine
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Re: CV Failure

Postby okayfine » 06 Jul 2017 06:06

But if the issue is grease leaving the joint between CV and boot flange, why throw the CV out for the problem? Better boots may be the cure for what ails you.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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Byron510
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Re: CV Failure

Postby Byron510 » 06 Jul 2017 08:23

That's certainly showing signs of heat and lack of lube - thanks for the photos.

I bought the Wolf Creek Kit when it was available, the basis for Dave's kit today. I was told by Wold Creek to use a vent at the shaft to give the CV boot the ability to "breathe" when heating up.

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The "vent" is simply a straw from a WD40 can, or something similar.

I haven't seen any grease thrown out under the car in any way, but now you have me concerned Lou. Seems I should check a little closer.
Mine too are the Empi CV's and I've had no issues to date. The car sees long drives every year, mind you I didn't cross the continent and back again in one go as Lou did last month! :-)

Thanks for the heads up Lou. Like you, I spent a small fortune on this product as a cure all, end all. But like everything, maintenance is sometimes required even on the best products.

Byron
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zKars
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Re: CV Failure

Postby zKars » 06 Jul 2017 14:30

I've been thinging alot about this, as I have had problems with Futofab CV's too. Not this problem, but I digress.

First question, do you have a spray of CV grease on the underside of your car immediately around the CV at the place where the grease supposedly left the joint and was the joint all slimy at the boot/metal boot ring sits? Or are you assuming the failure was due to a loss of grease, and the only place you believe it can leave was at this interface?

I'm not being argumentative, I just want to get to the root cause of the failure, and I'm not sure we are there yet.

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Re: CV Failure

Postby 510rob » 06 Jul 2017 14:39

top of page 219 ---> CV boot grease flanges...
http://vwcatalog.empius.com/vwcatalog/2016/219.html

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Byron510
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Re: CV Failure

Postby Byron510 » 06 Jul 2017 16:47

510rob wrote:top of page 219 ---> CV boot grease flanges...
http://vwcatalog.empius.com/vwcatalog/2016/219.html


Those are pretty cool Rob, wonder of there is space in there to use these.....hmmmm. It's another axial face to make things go sideways, but quite possible worth the effort.

In the same token, I wonder if we could install the same fittings (2x) in our adapter plates.

Byron
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because the opposite never works.

Chickenman
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Re: CV Failure

Postby Chickenman » 06 Jul 2017 20:43

255,000 KM on the ORIGINAL CV's on my Audi A4 AWD. Prop shaft has CV's as well. Oh... and they all have gaskets between the CV and the mating flange. FWIW.

If you split a boot on OEM Audi/VW's the honest shops tell you to just clean the original CV's and replace boot and grease. Don't buy an aftermarket rebuilt axle and CV assembly because they are never as good as the originals.  Some shops at VW/Vortex have had customers run over a year with a split boot on Audi's. No ill effects. My right outer boot was  was split for about 6 months ( That I know of  )  of constant work driving in Winter. Took it apart in the spring and it was as  good as gold.. Not a spec of wear. That was in Mar of 2008 at 158,679 KM. Car now has over 255,000KM on it. 

Pretty normal for Audi/VW  CV's to go 300,000 + KM with no issues.  And you don't have to grease them as a part of scheduled  maintenance. 

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Re: CV Failure

Postby Chickenman » 06 Jul 2017 20:44

Personally, If I was going to get some CV's for my Datsun 280Z, I would go to an Auto Wrecker  and pull the axles from an later model Audi or VW.  Pick A  Part in Chilliwack has CV axles for $34.95 CDN each. And they have a few Audi's in the yard right now. ( Ton's of VW's and Passats ). I was out there this afternoon. 

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Re: CV Failure

Postby Chickenman » 06 Jul 2017 20:47

Typical Audi/VW CV gasket: about $5 each. There are several different sizes. . I've never seen an OEM car manufacturer NOT use gaskets or O-Rings to seal the grease in between the CV and the mating hub.

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