dogleg trans info

Engine, Transmission and related drivetrain.
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guzzirik
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dogleg trans info

Post by guzzirik » 27 Jan 2019 13:21

It turns out the trans I got with my '70 coupe is a 63W dogleg. From what I can gather it is the same length as the 4 speed ,26.5 inches. Will it bolt up to the stock crossmember? With the same mount? Will the throwout arm and bearing from the 4 sp. work on it? and anything else you guys think I might need to know besides throw it away and get a 71. I had one in my '77 200SX ITB car and it never gave me any trouble. Knowing nothing about it I'm gonna take it apart and replace the bearings and synchros (they are available,right?) and anything else that looks dodgy...It WAS free...

datzenmike
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Re: dogleg trans info

Post by datzenmike » 27 Jan 2019 14:29

Coupe? or is it really a left hand drive sedan?

There may be a good reason it was free.


The length is so close it's not a concern whatever.

I've forgotten if it uses the 510 cross member but plan for it not to.

The 4 speed clutch arm, release collar and (a new) bearing will work on it. Always keep the release collar with it's original pressure plate no matter what transmission you put on behind it. Always replace the release bearing with a good quality one. It's a lot of bother to take everything apart in 3 months because it starts making noise. This is not a time to get the $6 one from china.

Take the speedometer sleeve out and compare to he one in the 4 speed. If they are the same color you can use it, if not, use the 4 speed one to keep your meter accurate.

The L series dogleg has the same identical gear ratios as the 4 speed it replaces.

Make sure the kit contains a rear seal. May I suggest the oil? I'm using the GM Delco Friction Modified Synchromesh Gear oil. 104014 88900399 US number is different but contents the same. (made to be used in the new Camaro and Corvette) Semi Synthetic, GL4 and much 'thinner' than the 80w90 that was originally used in the 63A and better protection. Up shifts are smoother (and faster because of this) it's specially noticeable on cold start mornings and down shifts much easier even if you don't try to rev match. Shell makes the base stock but I bet the red and the purple stuff is the same but for the food coloring added....and the price. Last time Lordco it was $17 CDN. Amazon has it
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

guzzirik
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Re: dogleg trans info

Post by guzzirik » 27 Jan 2019 17:28

I thought coupes were 2 door and sedans were 4 door. It's a left hand drive 2door whatever that is. Anyway, thanks for the help. I assume by a good release bearing you mean oem, which would be? There is no speedo drive in the 63 so I hope the one in the 4 speed will work. I didn't realize that you could use thinner oil w/friction modifiers to replace 80/90 gear oil. Great tip! I'll order some tonite. Is there somewhere you know of that's best for buying the parts i'll need, such as a very old dealership, or someone with a cache of old nos parts? Thanks again!

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Byron510
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Re: dogleg trans info

Post by Byron510 » 28 Jan 2019 13:03

The Trans X Member will be different, but you can use the stock 4sd drive shaft.
I have 2 of these transmissions myself. They are known to not be a strong. Mine went in "temporarily" in 2004... it's still there! And I do run R compounds on track days and auto X's - it sees use.
At any rate, the clutch pivot ball has been the same on any Nissan L series Transmission - and beyond - relative to the flywheel face/ crank register. So the clutch bearing throw out sleeve length is relevant only to the clutch diaphragm height of the clutch you use. there are a number of different diaphragm heights, the sleeve just needs to match the one you are using.
Hopefully you got the shift knob to remind everyone else where reverse and first is? There are one or two manufacturers out there with the right shift pattern aftermarket knobs...

Coupe vs Sedan - random Google search photo...
510 Coupe vs Sedan.jpg
510 Coupe vs Sedan.jpg (12.96 KiB) Viewed 701 times
A picture is worth a thousand words, but the true coupe roof, both windows, door and 1/4 glass are different, as was all the trim, lights ect...
Sedans were the norm, Couples only made in limited numbers for local markets in Japan (and South Africa I believe).

Byron
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because the opposite never works.

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zKars
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Re: dogleg trans info

Post by zKars » 28 Jan 2019 14:22

At the moment the only ACDelco 88900399 trans fluid on amazon.ca is either $70 or $80 a litre depending on the seller. The last time I was in Lordco in BC (last fall, Kelowna and Cranbrook), I checked the cost as I wanted to buy more (it is wonderful) but the price was WAY over $17, more like $30ish. Buying Redline or one of the other synthetic options is now comparible in price.

datzenmike
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Re: dogleg trans info

Post by datzenmike » 29 Jan 2019 05:38

I saw the Amazon price and figured it was a mistake. I'm sure that would be for a gallon. It was just under $20 at the GM dealer (try them, but the first thing out of his mouth after I told him exactly what I wanted was "what year Camaro is this for?" I said a '76 Datsun and the conversation went down hill. Turned out they were out so I went to Lordco and it was $2 cheaper a liter.

Phone the dealer and see what they charge. $140 for transmission oil is a bit much. It is great stuff though.


https://www.ebay.com/p/ACDelco-10-9243- ... /805972565 $13 probably US $ there was another for $18 probably CDN
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

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RMS
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Re: dogleg trans info

Post by RMS » 29 Jan 2019 09:02

i run chevrons dello 50w synthetic trans oil in all my boxes. its around $200 for a 5gal bucket. but first I run atf to clean out any molly slip or teflon based additives.
two_68_510s wrote:I guess our donkeys are quicker then your sled dogs!

guzzirik
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Re: dogleg trans info

Post by guzzirik » 29 Jan 2019 19:38

Any body make one of those "short shifters" for the dogleg? Or one that can be modded to work...

guzzirik
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Re: dogleg trans info

Post by guzzirik » 29 Jan 2019 19:50

Wow! I have a 2 door sedan, obviously...The coupe looks like my Alfa...I bought 3 qts of the Delco friction modified gear oil 104014 for $10.30 ea from Amazon..Got lucky...Can the crossmember be modified to fit? Cutting, bending and welding is what I do...Or make a new one from aluminum? I don't have a shifter. Period...So if anyone has one of those they would be willing to part with? If you need anything weird made aluminum wise shoot me a drawing. I'll see what I can do

datzenmike
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Re: dogleg trans info

Post by datzenmike » 30 Jan 2019 14:56

guzzirik wrote:
29 Jan 2019 19:38
Any body make one of those "short shifters" for the dogleg? Or one that can be modded to work...
My opinion.... The shifter should be close to the steering wheel and your hand should just drop down onto the ball easily and naturally and every gear should be within range with right shoulder never leaving contact with the seat. If you have to reach for 3rd and 5th or fumble around for a 3" tall shifter then you are simply doing it wrong. Like reaching over the front seat in the back for a bottle of water while driving around a curve. The shifter is a lever, longer above and shorter below the fulcrum point. This gives you mechanical advantage so shifting is almost effortless and smooth, shortening it means increasing the effort to shift gears and you feel like you're driving a tractor.

The 71B transmissions are very similar to the doglegs and share the fulcrum pin, E clip and the bushing kit for them. Later 71Bs even have the taller 'ears' that the fulcrum pin sits in and the hole has been raised and the lower end of the shifter lengthened. Raising the fulcrum point will also shorten the throw but keep the shifter at the same comfortable height. No more leaning forward and groping around on the floor for the shift knob. The dogleg didn't get these taller ears but you can drill the two holes for the pin higher. Even 1/4" makes a difference.

To expose the shifter ears I unbolted the transmission mount and jacked the transmission up into the cab enough to drill the holes.

Image

I cut the ball end that fits the nylon cup off, and lengthened it so it would just reach the bottom of the hole in the striker rod. *

Image

I'm also using a 720 shifter with the larger surfaces and plastic inserts and spring. I don't think it will ever wear out like the smaller ones. The shifter is rubber isolated

Image

It's the bottom one and can be 180'd to move the lever more forward or back. Kind of handy.

Image

So the shift throws, forward and back, are shortened BUT the sideways gates distance remains the same. All gear shifts are done with the wrist, elbow at my side.

* The vertical hole in the striker rod that the shifter end and nylon cup fit down into is often deeper than needed. Measure and see if you can lengthen the bottom of the shifter so it reaches down near the bottom. This lengthening below the fulcrum pin is the same as shortening above it and shortens the travel also.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

guzzirik
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Re: dogleg trans info

Post by guzzirik » 31 Jan 2019 17:22

I'll wager that you made all "A's" in Making Sense 101...I shall do all of it...Now, to find a 720 shifter...

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RMS
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Re: dogleg trans info

Post by RMS » 01 Feb 2019 18:26

last time I needed a shifter I had to by a whole parts truck. it would be nice if one of these supper handy guys with fancy tools would do a run on shifters.
two_68_510s wrote:I guess our donkeys are quicker then your sled dogs!

datzenmike
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Re: dogleg trans info

Post by datzenmike » 01 Feb 2019 22:59

I was discussing the 63A elsewhere tonight so I'll just leave this here....

If talking about the L and A series doglegs, they are the same inside and only the front case is different to reflect the engine bolt pattern.

The Z series dogleg, (yes there was one) besides having a different engine bolt pattern, also has different gear ratios for first and second. These are 3.170 first as compared to the 3.382 in the L and A series doglegs. This mashes 1st, 2nd (slightly) closer to 3rd which remains the same as the L and the A series. All L, A and Z series front cases will interchange.

L and A series.......Z series

3.382.................... 3.170.... 7% less RPM drop on up shift to 2nd

2.013.................... 1.920..... 4% less RPM drop on up shift to 3rd

1.312.................... 1.312

1.000.................... 1.000

0.854.................... 0.854

Oh yeah the Z series 63A was optionally available on the US '80 A10 4 dr hatchback and wagon. (Canada retained the L20B for '80) After June '80 build dates in US and Canada, only the A10 4 dr hatchback had them. The A series 63A was optionally available on the April '76 GSX coupe B210. I don't think Canada had them.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

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