Will a G35x transfer case fit on a Frontier 4x4 box?

Engine, Transmission and related drivetrain.
510rob
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Re: Will a G35x transfer case fit on a Frontier 4x4 box?

Post by 510rob »

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MSEngineering
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Re: Will a G35x transfer case fit on a Frontier 4x4 box?

Post by MSEngineering »

icehouse wrote: 12 Nov 2020 10:03 After driving the Pulsar for a couple months I'm in love with AWD.  You can literally punch it in the rain and it just goes.  Even with old tires and a lot of power for a light car.  So of coarse I dream of making an AWD 510.   I don't like the transverse engine so I've been dreaming of a system similar to the old skylines.  Which the easiest route would be to source a transmission from one of them.  Turns out like everything from that era prices are going crazy!   it's 1500 bucks for an AWD transmission.. Being into Nissan cars and trucks I wondered if the CD009 from a 2005+ Frontier would mate to a G35/37x AWD transfer case.  I figured an adapter plate would be required but that's actually pretty easy to 3D scan and make.  Of coarse since Facebook ruined the internet car scene, you can't find any post 2013 information at all!  I tried signing up to the G35 facebook group.... The only comment was "Buy a subaru if you want a 6 speed manual in an AWD car."  Which I would never do!!!   So this is where i'm stuck. Will the output splines from the Frontier box fit the G35 transfer case input shaft.  Nissan usually keeps things the same...  Yes... Yes... I could have some custom adapter made but I feel it would just be the weak link.  The input shaft on the two transfer cases is the same ID (I looked up the seals on rockauto) and although the two input shafts have a different lead in chamfer they do look very similar.  My next step is to go to a wrecking yard and try and fit them together.  They sell the transfer cases for 75 bucks and the 4x4 CD009 for 350.  So way cheaper and stronger then the old Skyline stuff, to be honest I'm not sure if the transfer case is stronger but my guess is it's probably the same one just adapted.  It's the same tech for sure since it can go from full lock to unlocked.  

Truck transfer case, notice the front drive shaft is on the left side

Image


G35x transfer case front driveshaft is on the right side

Image

Frontier box

Image
I specialize in these 4wd systems and I think you're misunderstanding something the older Skyline GTR box is not weaker and it also does not use the same method of actuation the Infiniti X cars use an electromagnetic actuator, like the new R35 GTR, the BNR series Skylines use Hydraulic actuation and carbon clutches. With out the ECU and connections and CAN bus you cannot use that differential.

Hydraulic line
R32 R33 R34
R32 R33 R34
IMG_5999 (1).JPG (117.22 KiB) Viewed 438 times
G35x, M45X M35x, FX45x, FX35x M56x differential It's an electrical connection that uses PWM current tied into ABS CAN BUS communications and wheel speeds
R35 GTR uses G sensors and steering input fed back along with the above and communicates over CANBUS so it's not a transfercase you can just put on the vehicle and expect it to work. It's not a AWD that constantly intermeshes gears like a Mitsubishi AWD .
sf7nYQG.jpg
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It's far easier to retrofit the older differential from the Skyline Series Transfer case (ETX13A) than the Electromagnetic version (ETX13B) which is faster reacting than the hydraulics.
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icehouse
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Re: Will a G35x transfer case fit on a Frontier 4x4 box?

Post by icehouse »

MSEngineering wrote: 15 Mar 2021 20:38
I specialize in these 4wd systems and I think you're misunderstanding something the older Skyline GTR box is not weaker and it also does not use the same method of actuation the Infiniti X cars use an electromagnetic actuator, like the new R35 GTR, the BNR series Skylines use Hydraulic actuation and carbon clutches. With out the ECU and connections and CAN bus you cannot use that differential.
Thanks for taking time for the reply.

I also have a D21 Nissan truck. Some of the guys have done LS swaps and according to them the 30A doesn't handle the torque very well. They also have issues if you tow a trailer in 5th gear with the stock VG. I have not heard of anyone breaking a R31A in a truck of a drift car. That is my only strength data point.

I do understand the transfer case diff will not actuate without the proper signal. Which will be one of two things, variable voltage or PWM. My guess is the latter. Yeah the car uses CAN bus everywhere for communication but we are much further down stream, only 4 wires lead into the transfer case, 2 are for temp and 2 run into the clutch. Either way it shouldn't be too hard to spoof the signal for some rudimentary clutch settings. The cool thing is the transfer case is 75 bucks from the yard. If I brick it I can grab another couple for cheap. As far as torque vectoring or anything other then basic controls I'm not sure how to solve that. If I get it installed and working I will worry about that. Right now I'm just taking it one step at a time and my CNC mill is still down so I haven't machined the first part yet.


MSEngineering wrote: 15 Mar 2021 20:38
Hydraulic line
IMG_5999 (1).JPG

G35x, M45X M35x, FX45x, FX35x M56x differential It's an electrical connection that uses PWM current tied into ABS CAN BUS communications and wheel speeds
R35 GTR uses G sensors and steering input fed back along with the above and communicates over CANBUS so it's not a transfercase you can just put on the vehicle and expect it to work. It's not a AWD that constantly intermeshes gears like a Mitsubishi AWD .
sf7nYQG.jpg

It's far easier to retrofit the older differential from the Skyline Series Transfer case (ETX13A) than the Electromagnetic version (ETX13B) which is faster reacting than the hydraulics.
Easy would be to just buy an AWD car, that's what Rob would tell me anyways haha. I honestly don't see the difference in difficulty in either system, since to work correctly they both need a controller. Either can be spoofed into fully locking. I just for sure don't want that big ass hydraulic pump anywhere in my car. :)

Thanks for the reply. Which cars do you work on? Has anyone you know done this swap? To me it seems like a rad idea. I'd love to manual swap a G35x. Although I think the auto is a little longer then the CD009. Might cause some issues along with a million other unforeseen issues.
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam
MSEngineering
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Re: Will a G35x transfer case fit on a Frontier 4x4 box?

Post by MSEngineering »

icehouse wrote: 16 Mar 2021 08:17
taking time for the reply.

I also have a D21 Nissan truck. Some of the guys have done LS swaps and according to them the 30A doesn't handle the torque very well. They also have issues if you tow a trailer in 5th gear with the stock VG. I have not heard of anyone breaking a R31A in a truck of a drift car. That is my only strength data point.

I do understand the transfer case diff will not actuate without the proper signal. Which will be one of two things, variable voltage or PWM. My guess is the latter. Yeah the car uses CAN bus everywhere for communication but we are much further down stream, only 4 wires lead into the transfer case, 2 are for temp and 2 run into the clutch. Either way it shouldn't be too hard to spoof the signal for some rudimentary clutch settings. The cool thing is the transfer case is 75 bucks from the yard. If I brick it I can grab another couple for cheap. As far as torque vectoring or anything other then basic controls I'm not sure how to solve that. If I get it installed and working I will worry about that. Right now I'm just taking it one step at a time and my CNC mill is still down so I haven't machined the first part yet.



Nissan uses PWM direct voltage would over heat the unit.
If you ever see a GTR's E-diff you'll find it looks very similar.
Also, what temp sensor ?
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icehouse wrote: 16 Mar 2021 08:17
Easy would be to just buy an AWD car, that's what Rob would tell me anyways haha. I honestly don't see the difference in difficulty in either system, since to work correctly they both need a controller. Either can be spoofed into fully locking. I just for sure don't want that big ass hydraulic pump anywhere in my car. :)

Thanks for the reply. Which cars do you work on? Has anyone you know done this swap? To me it seems like a rad idea. I'd love to manual swap a G35x. Although I think the auto is a little longer then the CD009. Might cause some issues along with a million other unforeseen issues.
An Attessa pump isn't large though and the auto is almost a foot longer . The Hydraulic T case has carbon clutches in it the electromagnetic one doesn't the hydraulic case also has a (mechanical) fluid pump that circulates fluid apart from the hydraulic locking system.

To use the E Diff you all you have to do is look at Subaru aftermarket controllers they use an electromagnetic diff (ONLY IN THE STI) as well that send two wires to the unit.
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Last edited by MSEngineering on 27 Mar 2021 05:41, edited 2 times in total.
MSEngineering
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Re: Will a G35x transfer case fit on a Frontier 4x4 box?

Post by MSEngineering »

icehouse wrote: 16 Mar 2021 08:17 Has anyone you know done this swap? To me it seems like a rad idea. I
Also you're not limited to the V6 engines the VK45 AWD cars and VK56 AWD cars have the same front diff at different ratios both V6 and V8 front differentials can take LSD's and ring and pinions used by the GTR the aftermarket billet GTR housing also will work if the going got tough and broke parts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pEw6XtkP08


https://forums.nicoclub.com/full-race-s ... 30203.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn3D9UQFGgY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7P7tjs7cAc


https://www.facebook.com/Nissan200sxGTR/


https://www.facebook.com/24760678862505 ... 864565238/
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icehouse
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Re: Will a G35x transfer case fit on a Frontier 4x4 box?

Post by icehouse »

MSEngineering wrote: 27 Mar 2021 01:43
icehouse wrote: 16 Mar 2021 08:17 Has anyone you know done this swap? To me it seems like a rad idea. I
Also you're not limited to the V6 engines the VK45 AWD cars and VK56 AWD cars have the same front diff at different ratios both V6 and V8 front differentials can take LSD's and ring and pinions used by the GTR the aftermarket billet GTR housing also will work if the going got tough and broke parts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pEw6XtkP08


https://forums.nicoclub.com/full-race-s ... 30203.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn3D9UQFGgY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7P7tjs7cAc


https://www.facebook.com/Nissan200sxGTR/


https://www.facebook.com/24760678862505 ... 864565238/

I've read all those except the last one. Thanks for the info. What exactly do you work on?
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam
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