KA-T intercooler

[ichorid]

Hey guys, Im trying to find a FMIC for my setup. I got an IAP one as part of a kit I bought from some one. its crazy long though, clearly for an s13 body. Just curious if anyone has a recommendation for one that they liked that fit well. I see a lot of "universal" IC's on ebay. but honestly I dont trust the no name ebay brands very much. Any how if you have some tips. or even an FMIC for sale. Im in the market.

[ichorid]

well after looking around the internet, reading a lot of builds on here, ratsun, and ka-t.org. I have a good idea of what I need.

But during a brainstorming session with a buddy of mine. I started planning out something that I think will be pretty interesting. He was throwing out the idea of a V-mount, and well there is 0 room for that to happen. But the idea of a top mount and a custom hood scoop on my CF hood came up, and got me pretty amped. I have been modeling up the hood and trying to shape something modern/period specific. Im pretty hyped on the idea. On paper it seems like Ill get a lot more use out of my radiator. I wont have to have a big FMIC visible to all the world. (some people are into that look Id like it to look a little sleepy) Ill post some renders when I finish mocking up in 3d.

[okayfine]

But the idea of a top mount and a custom hood scoop on my CF hood came up, and got me pretty amped.

For turbo clearance? CF isn't real tolerant of high heat. If'n you want a scoop, that's cool, but make sure it stays cool.

[duke]

The "Grasshopper" had a top mount intercooler...check out the build thread for more info.

http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.ph ... &start=120

[ichorid]

yeah I had a talk with a fabricator today he, said the CF hood would be fine but we have to make the scoop wide enough to accommodate the possible heat warping. I was also thinking about just doing it with my stock hood and making a metal scoop. Im really not all that concerned with the weight gain.

holy crap duke, I never read that build, thats just what I was imagining in my head. Im gonna have to give it a hard read through now. the hood looks great too. Here I am thinking I may have thought of something unique for my ka-t build.

[thisisastickup]

Use a side mount from a stock SR20 240. Put it in behind your drivers side headlight, and replace the inside light with a velocity stack.

[ichorid]

the sr side mount wont hold up for what Im building. I had thought about a tucked away front mount. But all the logical spots involved a lot of pipping and road hazards. the Perrin topmount for the STI is what Im looking to get right now. Just trying to do more front vs top research.

As far as I can tell an FMIC is the most reliable way to cool the giant heat sync, but given a proper mount, scoop, and flow setup. the Topmount will perform just as well. the top mount wont have to worry about rocks at the track, or on the street. The topmount will have less intake lag, and yield more midrange. But Ill also get much much more use out of my radiator.

Some articles suggest its all user preference, some suggest that the FMIC will always be better. I think the clear loss of pipe travel for the air could be a pro and a con. Any how more research for me.

the turbo setup Im running is good to 500whp as proven on the dyno from the car it came off of. I dont plan on going near that. But I do plan on getting in the 350whp range. A buddy with an STI has his just above 400 right now with a APS* (I think thats the brand) TMIC setup.

[okayfine]

But the Subaru TMIC still mounts below the hood line (due to the flat-four engine). You would pretty much have to stuff a TMIC into whatever hood scoop you were thinking about, and that's not an apples-to-apples comparison with the Subaru FM/TM debate.

There are some ease-of-install reasons for FMs on 510s, but most of the cons you state (pressure drop due to piping, radiator efficiency dropping) can be mitigated as there's been so much work done with FMs on 510s.

I'd be interested in your plan, though.

[ichorid]

the mock up right now using the perrin 11x10.8x4 tMIC would be mounted about 3-4 inches above center engine.



then the hood scoop would be 13x12x5 directly above the TMIC. dimensions of the scoop are an estimate right now as are materials being used. Im also going to take some tips from the way mazda eliminated the need for a scoop by adding directional funnels from the front end guiding toward the hood.(possibly) Im talking with a guy more today about the feasibility. But its definitely something I think will look cool and function well. we shall see.

My wife and I are buying a house so its all paper planning right now, holding off on starting up the turbo build till march.


reading this gave me a lot of ideas,

http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Optimisi ... ticle.html

[okayfine]

the mock up right now using the perrin 11x10.8x4 tMIC would be mounted about 3-4 inches above center engine.

Do you have 7-8 inches above the engine? I'd think even the rear of the IC would crack the hood line, with the exposure growing as you moved toward the front (hood line falls relative to the engine).

Im also going to take some tips from the way mazda eliminated the need for a scoop by adding directional funnels from the front end guiding toward the hood.(possibly) Im talking with a guy more today about the feasibility. But its definitely something I think will look cool and function well. we shall see.

But Madza still has a scoop, it's just in front of the hood line instead of on top. You likely won't have space at the front 8-10" of a stock 510 hood with a KA setup to run any sort of duct under the hood line without resorting to the bulbous hood such as the MS3 (or SRT4) has.

Still, I'm all for something different. Maybe get in touch with one of the composite 510 hood manufacturers about getting something made up that'll give you the room?

[ichorid]

I am talking to the guy that did my cage about making one of out metal over a stock 510 hood. And I have a buddy that does Fiberglass composite for for film. He is making me a dash as part of a barter to create him a website for his work. which is really easy his works is amazing, he made 1:1 scale bumblebee's for the 2 transformer movies.

the measurements are an estimation right now but what we are thinking for the metal hood is not just making a hood but removing the near entire center of the stock hood lathing it up from front to rear and in the center having the scoop. Something between


and


but reverse the hood scoop orientation. It would give us more room in the hump for the TMIC and scoop to co-inhabbit the engine bay. So I have my feelers out there. I wish I could find a 3D model of a 510 that was worth its spit. The one I have is horrible. I think I may just have to model it myself.

[hang_510]

cowl hood?

done right, they look good.
someone here has it. i was looking into buying it.

kinda like this...



or like a roadster...

[ichorid]

yeah that hood looks really nice, almost american muscle but still sorta quiet looking. I need to do some research on scoop orientation as well. I notice a lot of rear facing scoops, and Im not sure the benefits of either. time to put that on my list of things I dont know. In my spare time I like to look up anything I write on the list be it fluid dynamics, particle massing, or words I hear people use that I am not positive on the definition.

[okayfine]

OOoh, Roadster might be very cool, especially if you could actually use that front trim on the scoop of the finished product.

I've got ~4.5" between the top of my SR and the bottom of the hood at the rear of the cylinder head. That's all relative to nothing since you have a KA (though I expect they're near the same height) and have mounted it differently. Still, that 7-8" clearance puts the top of the IC ~3.5" above hood height, never mind the room necessary above that to direct air in from front.

Cowl-induction hoods (or rearward facing scoops) take advantage of the low-pressure area at the base of the windshield...makes it easier to change the direction of the air, allowing the engine to suck it in. Forward scoops and FMs use the high-pressure air at the front of the car.

SR came with a top mount in the Pulsar GTI-R, though the Pulsar was a transverse SR install (think FWD, though the GTI-R was AWD).

[duke]

Cowl-induction hoods (or rearward facing scoops) take advantage of the low-pressure area at the base of the windshield...makes it easier to change the direction of the air, allowing the engine to suck it in.

Actually, it is the opposite of this. The base of the windshield is a high pressure area, and the cowl induction hood takes advantage of this because the engine bay is a low pressure area (air goes from high to low pressure). Same concept is what makes the fresh air vents in the cowl work.

One thing that you must consider with a top mounted IC is that the airflow behind is compromised when compared to a front mount. Remember, the air must be able to go through the intercooler, not just into it.