Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Problems, ideas and comments specific to engine swaps.
jonesmechanical
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Joined: 05 May 2008 23:48
Location: Lehi, Utah

Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by jonesmechanical » 21 Jul 2010 21:09

Yea guys, thats what I am talking about. Just because you may not think that you are qualified to give technical advise on this specific build, doesn't mean you cant contribute still.

Today was crazy. I have own a small HVAC company, and things are crazy around here because of the heat here in Utah. I didn't have a chance to see the builder today. for sure this week.

This builder said that he is going to do the calculations and volume measurements to find out what exactly the compression ratio is. I imagine every single one could be slightly different depending on how much material is removed from the pistons.

I have a binder of every thread started on the topic, and really, there are many holes, even if you take bits a pieces from every article and discussion online about the simple "vg34e" conversion.

I was pleased to speak with JWT and they said that my stock ECU will handle the conversion, and I assume that the stock injectors can handle the estimated power output of this setup. Well, lets assume under ideal conditions, this motor would put out 250 hp at the crank (which I think is a bit optimistic), could the stock injectors supply the fuel for that much power? I don't even know what size they are on a stock vg30 200sx setup. That info is likely a phone call away to JWT.

What drives me nuts about the pathfinder build with the vg34e, its like they were intentionally vague about parts of the build, like they were sharing proprietary information of something. Or they over simplified things saying clearanceing the pistons is simple, any machine shop could do it. Its obviously not that simple.

So, this car, is a car I cant believe resides in my garage. I feel like I am just its care taker, and have plans to never sell it. I have a great relationship with Kelvin. It is my goal one of these days to have him out to Utah to drive this car on the track (which he never actually did).

I have toyed with the idea of boosting this car. With the rods out of a vg30de/dett already part of the build, it would just require custom pistons for a lower compression ratio, (I would prefer around a 8.5:1 ratio for pump friendly power making). The 2 main hurdles are simple:

1. the tuning. I would likely to either a tec3r through Vic Sias with Sias tuning, or a AEM EMS through Mike Radowski at Maximum psi, maybe a Autronic SM4. I have had experience with all of these guys and Standalones on both my BMW M coupes, and My FD RX7's.

2. packaging. I would do a front mount, new radiator, schedule 10 stainless manifolds with a stock like OEM Z31 turbo cross over pipe (that would require cutting out the trans tunnel and managing heat on my car, and likely do a GT35r Garrett turbo with a Tial stainless Vband housing. Rear end would likely need to be upgraded from the subie r160 lds in it now. I think the CV axels are ready to go. Then my favorite mod ever, race logic traction control to reign in all in.

I could see this motor making crazy power on 91 pump. 450 wheel easy on about 13-15 psi. Way too much for a car like this. But why not. I think to do it right, it would cost me $10,000 by the time it was all done doing much of the work my self and with friends. For now, my M Coupe provides the plenty of go fast hp to keep the 510 mellow. And its really hard to justify something so expensive on a car that is just so right.

Over on Bimmerforums, where I have spend most of my time over there for the last 4 years (on the Z3 forum and the Forced induction forum) there is much more activity. This is natural just because of the shear volume of owners out there, and its so much more main stream. I just love how the BMW and any Car enthusiast group really embraces the 510, regardless of demographic or brand bias. There was a recent thread in the styles section over there, and someone posted a thread titles "hottest 2002's". Of course I couldn't resists to interject a few pics of the smurf, which incited only positive reactions.

I have a firm belief that if someone is really a car guy, they either have a great respect, or have actually owned a 510 once in life. I don't car if they currently own exotics. Real car guys know the history and beauty of the design, and the soul it carries. Its unforgettable if you have been in one.

I guess this has become a bit of an introduction of myself. I am excited to become more involved more over here. I have owned 4 510's. It was my dads 1st new car, and its was my first, and it will be my last. I'm from Sandiego originally (east county lakeside/eucalyptus hills) and graduated from HS in 91.

Here are a few pics of the 510, with mechanical destruction and build pics to come soon.
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And, a bit OT, a bitchin shot done by a local photographer of the M coupe.
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for those interested in knowing a bit more about the coupe, you can visit bimmerforums, and just look for my posts (also jonesmechanical).

Thanks for bringing a bit of life to the thread, and to this sub forum. ITS ALIVE!!!

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vgwagon
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Location: Burnaby, British Columbia

Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by vgwagon » 21 Jul 2010 22:55

I still don't see the need for the valve reliefs being cut, has there been a measured clearance
thats too tight and actually requires the reliefs or is this just a copy and paste of the stock 3.3 pistons reliefs?
Denis Gagné
AKA VGwagon

69 510 VG30e swapped
73 240z VG30et swapped
86 300zx na2t VG30et converted

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okayfine
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by okayfine » 22 Jul 2010 07:40

jonesmechanical wrote:What drives me nuts about the pathfinder build with the vg34e, its like they were intentionally vague about parts of the build, like they were sharing proprietary information of something.
I run into that only occasionally when I troll for DQ contributors. The vast majority of people either are willing to help, or won't but not for (stated) reasons of secrecy. There's a bit of the secret-secret element in some SoCal groups, but it is what it is.

So, does that mean the final VG34 details will be published in DQ for all? :mrgreen:

Oh, those wheels love that car. :shock:
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

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hang_510
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by hang_510 » 22 Jul 2010 11:17

jonesmechanical wrote:I have a firm belief that if someone is really a car guy, they either have a great respect, or have actually owned a 510 once in life. I don't car if they currently own exotics. Real car guys know the history and beauty of the design, and the soul it carries. Its unforgettable if you have been in one.
i dont think jay leno owns (or has owned) a datsun :shock:
byron wrote:I'd be all over that like a fat kid on a smartie.
okayfine wrote:Sense doesn't always have everything to do with it, and I speak from experience.

benz-tech
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by benz-tech » 22 Jul 2010 15:57

If the OP is just looking for build suggestions, I have a few. You could probably peruse all 300 of my posts at Z31p and see them being discussed: If you want to stick with NA, definately go with the 3.3/3.4L, its not worth trying to make one rev.
Spend a LOT of money having your cylinder heads ported- they are tiny! Throw away the Z32p rods away, buy a set of Eagles or Scats- 760g vs 585g PER HOLE! Use and aluminum flywheel-even with big cams and a 3.0, I can still easily start in 2nd gear w/ a 3.7. If you go with the 3.4L nissanperf engine, you should have around a 9.7:1 compression- perfect for a street engine. You might want to re-work your intake manifold, my 200sx is gutted and I've started on a new version also. Use a 87 turbo A/T oil pump- only works with the vg30 cranks, I believe. Call ISKY for cams. I have a small arguement with some on the grind- I say slightly less cam and more porting, they say cam the hell out of it. Either way, get as close to .500" lift as possible. Hope this is what you are looking for. BTW, Jones, those wheels are beyond sexy. Whacha got stuffed under the rear? I need more rear tire.

jonesmechanical
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Joined: 05 May 2008 23:48
Location: Lehi, Utah

Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by jonesmechanical » 22 Jul 2010 20:41

hang_510 wrote:i dont think jay leno owns (or has owned) a datsun :shock:
I think Leno has been exposed plenty by his good friend Adam Corrola.
benz-tech wrote:If the OP is just looking for build suggestions, I have a few. You could probably peruse all 300 of my posts at Z31p and see them being discussed: If you want to stick with NA, definately go with the 3.3/3.4L, its not worth trying to make one rev.
I think I have come to that conclusion.
benz-tech wrote:heads ported- they are tiny!
doing it, along with new valve guides, and ferrera valves. Machinist is working his majic on the heads. He did mention that 90% of the benefit of porting happens right at the vales them selves, he has his ideas, and I am going to let him go with them.
benz-tech wrote: Throw away the Z32p rods away, buy a set of Eagles or Scats- 760g vs 585g PER HOLE! Use and aluminum flywheel-even with big cams
Sticking with the stock rods, cheap and I already have them, I could see doing a light weight flywheel.
benz-tech wrote:I can still easily start in 2nd gear w/ a 3.7.

Maybe its just my old age (only 37), but I have really become a fan of tall gears. I would go much taller if it was readily available, and it would make sense with the extra hp/tq. My M coupe has 2.79 gears, and it is so perfectly matched (from stock 3.23). I allows the turbo to load nicely, and makes the gears enjoyable. Many F/I bimmer guys are finally coming around to admitting that taller gears make for a faster turbo car.
benz-tech wrote:You might want to re-work your intake manifold, my 200sx is gutted and I've started on a new version also.
any ideas on someone to get to do that?
benz-tech wrote: Use a 87 turbo A/T oil pump- only works with the vg30 cranks, I believe.
got it
benz-tech wrote:Call ISKY for cams.
JWT cams, and tuning already.
benz-tech wrote: BTW, Jones, those wheels are beyond sexy. Whacha got stuffed under the rear? I need more rear tire.
Yes, I am the wheel whore. I have the reputation over on bimmer forums for wheel/tire fitments on those cars, I applied the same thought and time into the 510. When I found that toyo made a small diameter 245 35 16, I quickly purchased some, and went from there. CCW has built several sets for me over the years. Very economical for a high quality 3 piece custom. They are so great to work with and don't gouge for what I consider every bit or better than HRE's, fikse's, and forgelines. Rears are 16 x 8.5 and fronts are 16. x 7.5 running 215 40's.
I have tried so many wheels on the car. It came with 15 x 7 volk te37's with 195 45's, but he offset was too agressive to run more rubber (which I wanted). Also, I wanted bigger brakes, and when I found that 16" 245, I committed to the 16's. Next I had a set of SSR MKIIR's, cool old school 2 piece 4 spoke, but the offsets didn't work out. Next, I custom ordered a set of staggered 16 x 7's and 8's of the Rota RB's:
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I think that last pic was the one used to create the canby t shirts.
Next I tried my hand at refinishing some rare panasport c8's, but they didn't clear the brakes (16 x 7 all around), I sold them to a local friend with a 71 4 door skyline. (they are still my favorite wheel)
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In the end, the ccw LM16's are perfectly fit. No rubbing, and the tires just fit right. The rear caliper hang over is obscene, and that was the main challenge to any wheels fitting. I prefer something a bit more classic, like the panasports, or even the libre's. I would totally get a set of the new 15" or 16" libre's if they could get the offsets right and clear my brakes (not likely for either). I forgot, I also have a set of 16x7/8 watanabe rs-8's that I completely restored that I have had up for sale a few times, but they are too perfect to part with for cheap money.


BACK ON TOPIC NOW. Talked to the engine builder, and I will be stopping by to take pics tomorrow. Also, I talked to Ben over at JWT. I am very excited as he says he has on file the VG34e that was tuned on their Dynopak dyno. He remembers that it dyno'd over 200 wheel through an automatic. Ben mentioned that it would be very representative of what mine would produce with intake, cams, headers, and tuning. I guess the one weak link in my setup would be the 200sx plenum, but hopefully I find a good source to work that over. I can't wait to see the plots and curves, and I will get them posted here. He confirmed that the stock 185cc injectors will be just fine for this build also.

cjr198car
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Location: Minneapolis Minnesota

Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by cjr198car » 29 Jul 2010 21:16

You will max out the stock injectors around 240whp on a mustang dyno (I have a turbo vg30e in my 510 and I just went through the process of installing larger injectors due to this issue).

If you plan on staying NA the vg34 sounds great. If your going to turbo it leave the engine alone and slap on manifolds, turbo, injectors, etc.

My current tune @ 15psi wastes the tires 1st-3rd (no intercooler, just water injection coming on at 4-6 psi). I would like an intercooler, but Im not cutting up the car at the moment.

If you have any questions shoot. Ive just gone through the NA to turbo transformation and everything is fresh on the brain.

pics:

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Ive added a ptp turbo blanket and spaced up the back of the hood to help reduce under hood temps.

-Colton

Magic Carpet 510
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by Magic Carpet 510 » 06 Aug 2010 08:55

Am I crazy or did some posts disappear?
One was mine asking for an update on the Smurf and I did see it. Forgot to budget in the cost of the machine shop.

I asked Colton what injectors he ended up with and where did he get them and has he dynoed the car since the injector change.

Colton, also I think I have decided to go turbo.

Anyone here have any luck hooking up Megasquirt on a vg30 or 33 turbo or not?
Megasquirt seems a lot cheaper that a lot of others but maybe you get what you pay for.


Looking for some superglue so this one will stick.
Ron Clifton
Winston Salem,NC
71 510 VG30, next step...turbo!
Making a Sasquatch sized carbon footprint and loving it!

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jason
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by jason » 06 Aug 2010 10:20

Yah, looks like the site crashed and the restore was a week old so we are missing a week's worth of posts. The webmaster is pee'd and looking for a new hosting service now!
Jason

cjr198car
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by cjr198car » 07 Aug 2010 09:56

I changed the injectors to 450cc top feeds. Im running 80% duty cycle on the injectors @ 15psi. No concrete #'s yet, but its fast (1st gear is worthless, 2nd gear spins tires, traction is still sketchy in third).

I raced my buddys Honda 600RR sport bike (06 model I believe and hes a great rider). Pulled him hard in third, he stopped losing ground in fourth, but never caught me (I got out of the gas in 5th @ about 4K rpm).

Glad to hear you are leaning towards the turbo route (best thing Ive ever done to the 510).

recent pic:

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-Colton

jonesmechanical
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Location: Lehi, Utah

Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by jonesmechanical » 07 Aug 2010 16:49

Yes, this site is shit, I don't know how much I can tolerate this. I'll keep you all posted, but when my posts dissapear, whats the point? get your crap together guys.

jonesmechanical
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Location: Lehi, Utah

Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by jonesmechanical » 07 Aug 2010 16:50

BTW, the pics are amazing. Love the wheels.

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vgwagon
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by vgwagon » 07 Aug 2010 22:32

jonesmechanical wrote:Yes, this site is shit, I don't know how much I can tolerate this. I'll keep you all posted, but when my posts dissapear, whats the point? get your crap together guys.
Geez WTF is you malfunction? If you cant be a courteous and productive member get the f out then....don't come here knocking this site. A lot of people put a lot of effort into this site, it's one of the original 510 sites and there is wealth of information here, as well as great people ......shit happens if you haven't already learned this in your life and this site has the odd issue every once an a while. This was clearly a web hosting issue so get a life and dump your shitty attitude elsewhere!
I don't know what your precious bimmer forums are like but if they all whine like you do then stay and be a douche bag there.
Hopefully you sell the 510 because it's old and you "can't tolerate" it's idiosyncrasies anymore.

I cant tolerate your BS anymore.
Peace.
Denis Gagné
AKA VGwagon

69 510 VG30e swapped
73 240z VG30et swapped
86 300zx na2t VG30et converted

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dislexicdime
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by dislexicdime » 08 Aug 2010 00:27

that man speaks the truth :!:
L series only have one header!

i need another garage mine is full of part's

jonesmechanical
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Location: Lehi, Utah

Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by jonesmechanical » 08 Aug 2010 19:07

Hey, I wasn't insulting you, just the site. I feel I am justified. I am really trying to contribute here, as I appreciate good documentation. My beef here has nothing to do with shut down, but unexplained substantial editing of my posts and others here on this thread. In years of heavily contributing to various forums, I have never experienced anything like this. I don't get it, I did post a website in only one of the posts about one of my m coupes, but no notice was given on a posting violation. On a scale of 1-10, shit being 1, I have really experienced a 1 here. Hopefully it improves. If some of you disagree, please show me where I have gone wrong here. 10% of the posts on a thread just show up missing? is that acceptable? Kinda makes it hard to follow a dialogue. Its amazing how quickly a new member has been ousted by one of their own (life 510 enthusiast, owner of multiples for 20 years) and no matter what success of failure I experience in life, my last car will be a 510.

I'm done here, I will post everything in my own thread for the benefit of the forum once my project is done.

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