Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Problems, ideas and comments specific to engine swaps.
jonesmechanical
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Location: Lehi, Utah

Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by jonesmechanical » 08 Aug 2010 19:10

Magic Carpet 510 wrote:Am I crazy or did some posts disappear?
One was mine asking for an update on the Smurf and I did see it. Forgot to budget in the cost of the machine shop.

I asked Colton what injectors he ended up with and where did he get them and has he dynoed the car since the injector change.

Colton, also I think I have decided to go turbo.

Anyone here have any luck hooking up Megasquirt on a vg30 or 33 turbo or not?
Megasquirt seems a lot cheaper that a lot of others but maybe you get what you pay for.


Looking for some superglue so this one will stick.
This is truth.

jonesmechanical
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Joined: 05 May 2008 23:48
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by jonesmechanical » 08 Aug 2010 19:21

vgwagon wrote:
jonesmechanical wrote:Yes, this site is shit, I don't know how much I can tolerate this. I'll keep you all posted, but when my posts dissapear, whats the point? get your crap together guys.
Geez WTF is you malfunction? If you cant be a courteous and productive member get the f out then....don't come here knocking this site. A lot of people put a lot of effort into this site, it's one of the original 510 sites and there is wealth of information here, as well as great people ......shit happens if you haven't already learned this in your life and this site has the odd issue every once an a while. This was clearly a web hosting issue so get a life and dump your shitty attitude elsewhere!
I don't know what your precious bimmer forums are like but if they all whine like you do then stay and be a douche bag there.
Hopefully you sell the 510 because it's old and you "can't tolerate" it's idiosyncrasies anymore.

I cant tolerate your BS anymore.
Peace.

Sorry, I can see why we may not get along in real life, never was much of a fan of the "goons" I guess I am a bit of a irs douche bag (joke, lol if you can). I know in life, we would get along, sorry you can't handle one knee jerk reaction of a legitimate issue I have with the haunting of posts in this thread. Feel free to get to know be a bit more over on any of the rx7 forums, or on bimmerforums z3 sub forum and look at what kind of guy I am. Same name over there. Maybe I have grown intolerant of web malfunctions in my old age, I certainly wouldn't assume that would ever translate into what ever frustrations you may experience in 510 ownership. Mine has been 20 years of bliss, and look forward to creating many more memories with it and others.

Its ok, you don't have to forgive me of my BS, just try and understand it. One post buddy, just one post. Patience please as we figure out what is happening here.

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thisismatt
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by thisismatt » 08 Aug 2010 21:44

jonesmechanical wrote:Hey, I wasn't insulting you, just the site. I feel I am justified. I am really trying to contribute here, as I appreciate good documentation. My beef here has nothing to do with shut down, but unexplained substantial editing of my posts and others here on this thread. In years of heavily contributing to various forums, I have never experienced anything like this. I don't get it, I did post a website in only one of the posts about one of my m coupes, but no notice was given on a posting violation. On a scale of 1-10, shit being 1, I have really experienced a 1 here. Hopefully it improves. If some of you disagree, please show me where I have gone wrong here. 10% of the posts on a thread just show up missing? is that acceptable? Kinda makes it hard to follow a dialogue. Its amazing how quickly a new member has been ousted by one of their own (life 510 enthusiast, owner of multiples for 20 years) and no matter what success of failure I experience in life, my last car will be a 510.

I'm done here, I will post everything in my own thread for the benefit of the forum once my project is done.
Dude. The site's hosting company is the one who hosed the forum, not any of the administration/moderators. It didn't "happen to you," it happened to the entire site. You've gone wrong by making it personal and insulting the forum itself, the administration, and the members who have contributed to it, all over an "act of God" that was out of any of their control. You may try to fault the admin by not running a tighter ship, but come on, this isn't a business and there is no money or time to run the site other than what the admin contributes out of pocket and what the members donate. By insulting the forum you insult us all.
I'm your huckleberry.

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vgwagon
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by vgwagon » 08 Aug 2010 23:07

jonesmechanical wrote:
vgwagon wrote:
jonesmechanical wrote:Yes, this site is shit, I don't know how much I can tolerate this. I'll keep you all posted, but when my posts dissapear, whats the point? get your crap together guys.
Geez WTF is you malfunction? If you cant be a courteous and productive member get the f out then....don't come here knocking this site. A lot of people put a lot of effort into this site, it's one of the original 510 sites and there is wealth of information here, as well as great people ......shit happens if you haven't already learned this in your life and this site has the odd issue every once an a while. This was clearly a web hosting issue so get a life and dump your shitty attitude elsewhere!
I don't know what your precious bimmer forums are like but if they all whine like you do then stay and be a douche bag there.
Hopefully you sell the 510 because it's old and you "can't tolerate" it's idiosyncrasies anymore.

I cant tolerate your BS anymore.
Peace.


Sorry, I can see why we may not get along in real life, never was much of a fan of the "goons" I guess I am a bit of a irs douche bag (joke, lol if you can). I know in life, we would get along, sorry you can't handle one knee jerk reaction of a legitimate issue I have with the haunting of posts in this thread. Feel free to get to know be a bit more over on any of the rx7 forums, or on bimmerforums z3 sub forum and look at what kind of guy I am. Same name over there. Maybe I have grown intolerant of web malfunctions in my old age, I certainly wouldn't assume that would ever translate into what ever frustrations you may experience in 510 ownership. Mine has been 20 years of bliss, and look forward to creating many more memories with it and others.

Its ok, you don't have to forgive me of my BS, just try and understand it. One post buddy, just one post. Patience please as we figure out what is happening here.

That fact is that this forum was started by a local BC member, and an insult hurled at the forum is an insult to all of us that have grown to love the realm. If my post seemed harsh now you know why.

This site is a lot like our old cars, quirky and at times unforgiving.

I understand your frustrations, just don't come here and hurl insults like that, rather make suggestions in the appropriate thread cause there is such a thread.

Moving on.....after reading your rebuttal's you sound like a cool dude. Lets keep that aspect going.

As for the Goon, it suits my needs and surprises many. I have a 73 240Z that will be getting a VG33ET when I get around to that project. I also have an 86 300ZX NA2T I'm just finishing up.
So I too appreciate IRS and it's advantages. Stay around for awhile and keep contributing as it seems you have a lot to say....just keep the site slagging to a minimum if possible.
Good luck. :mrgreen:
Denis Gagné
AKA VGwagon

69 510 VG30e swapped
73 240z VG30et swapped
86 300zx na2t VG30et converted

Magic Carpet 510
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by Magic Carpet 510 » 09 Aug 2010 09:06

OK, can we get back to the discussion of building VG 510s; the sniping could go on forever. Everyones points well taken by all I am sure.

Colton, that pic of your 510 at the drive-in if fantastic! Good job on that. I love good 510 art, photo or otherwise, and that photo qualifies in my book. That's why I have this site. www.artofmotorsports.com

Colton, what is the brand of injectors you went with and what rear end are you running? Have you upgraded to CV axle or still using the unijoints?

Colton, Interesting that you said that you could handle a 600CC sport bike. I got a ride in Dave Lum's "Red" VG30TT a few years back. I said then that the car felt like it would accelerate about like a 600CC bike; I owned a Hayabusa at the time. I think Lum said that he was making 333 RWHP at the time.

Jones, did your machine shop try to verify that the pistons "must" be cut for the valves to clear or is that just to make it a non-interference motor? I think making the motor noninterference would be worth the cost (easy for me to say, I don't know the cost), I would think that even a new timing belt could be break.

I am very much enjoying and learning from all the posters so please keep it up. Maybe we can spark new interest in VG powered dimes.
Ron Clifton
Winston Salem,NC
71 510 VG30, next step...turbo!
Making a Sasquatch sized carbon footprint and loving it!

jonesmechanical
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Joined: 05 May 2008 23:48
Location: Lehi, Utah

Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by jonesmechanical » 09 Aug 2010 09:43

Magic Carpet 510 wrote:Jones, did your machine shop try to verify that the pistons "must" be cut for the valves to clear or is that just to make it a non-interference motor? I think making the motor noninterference would be worth the cost (easy for me to say, I don't know the cost), I would think that even a new timing belt could be break.
No verification. This is where I wanted to get technical. I am almost 100% convinced that you can just swap these pistons in with no interference issues what so ever, it would just be an interference motor, which most of us have anyways. Obviously, there are other variable also, which I will verify (like cams, and actual change in top height of the pistons, vs normal vg30e pistons. I think comparing the wrist pin to top of piston height between the vh45 piston and the vg30 and the pathfinder vg33e would give most of the information. Then also take into account the depth of the vg33 pistons valve reliefs. Maybe in the end, I will end up with a piston that is slightly less inteference, if there ever was such a thing. IMO, if its interference, and it works, why machine it at all. Leave all the material there for a higher C/R.

This is the part of the build that really has never been discussed. A pure 100% non interference piston would be worth a few fractions of a C/R.

BTW, one of the threads that got deleted that got deleted I believe I discussed a few things.

Costs: I figured less than $2000 for everything, now looking like $3500-$4000. Of course all of those costs having more to do with going through the heads, new valves, guides, balancing, cleaning, and all of the stuff needed for the machinist to do it right. Obviously, if someone has the ability to do their own quality machine work, the build cost would be close to nothing. The overbore, and the valve reliefs total less than $400 of the total machine work.

Also, I posted a website of a build I helped with (notice in the credits of the magazing article) that I just ended up purchasing. I will own the car this coupe for a few months, install race logic traction control, turn up the boost (currently about 450 wheel at 10 psi w/g pressure), and make the interior a bit more street friendly.

My recommendation to all of you guys with boost in your 510's is to purchase a race logic traction control system for it. I have had them on all of my turbo projects. It makes them so driveable, safe, and faster that you could humanly drive them. I just purchased a system new from Australia for about $900 shipped. In a good friends lotus seven "locost" with a sr20det in it, it actually allowed for the motor to build more boost in 1st gear that it would otherwise make. Race Logic and 350 wheel/1700 lbs in that car really made the power completely usable.

I think that 200 wheel n/a via this vg34e build will still be within the threshold of my right foot traction control system.

Hopefully today I can make it up to salt lake and get some pics of the progress. At the very least, I will call him and see how its going.

cjr198car
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Joined: 25 Mar 2009 10:11
Location: Minneapolis Minnesota

Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by cjr198car » 09 Aug 2010 10:53

OK, can we get back to the discussion of building VG 510s; the sniping could go on forever. Everyones points well taken by all I am sure.

Yep lets make this useful for everyone...Ive still got a lot to learn with regards to VG's and 510's.

Colton, that pic of your 510 at the drive-in if fantastic! Good job on that. I love good 510 art, photo or otherwise, and that photo qualifies in my book. That's why I have this site. http://www.artofmotorsports.com

Thanks! I came up with the location and concept and had my friend execute on the pics (to many industrial yard car pics, needed to do something fresh).

Colton, what is the brand of injectors you went with and what rear end are you running? Have you upgraded to CV axle or still using the unijoints?

Not entirely sure on the brand. I actually bought them used from a gentleman that was upgrading injectors on his twin turbo g35 (right time right place I guess). I think they are RC injectors, but again I did not buy them new and there are no marking on the injectors.

Im running an R160 LSD with 3.7 gears.

I have not upgraded the u-joints, but plan to after the intercooler.

Colton, Interesting that you said that you could handle a 600CC sport bike. I got a ride in Dave Lum's "Red" VG30TT a few years back. I said then that the car felt like it would accelerate about like a 600CC bike; I owned a Hayabusa at the time. I think Lum said that he was making 333 RWHP at the time.

Im running very conservative timing and a/f ratios since I have no intercooler. 320-335 sounds about right at the moment. I will be adding an intercooler in the next few months and Ill go back for dyno figures. As of right now Im just so happy to drive the car!

510rob
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by 510rob » 09 Aug 2010 14:31

This is rad to see - good people brought this thread around to the good side (from the dark side!) and the VG discussions are rolling again. I was tempted to 'moderate' but the auto-mod intelligence of our membership stepped in. Does that make me a bad mod? (ummm, don't answer that!)

Jones..., For the record, no one deleted your posts. There was some hosting computer/server malfunction that downed this website for several days; that was fixed, and the site appeared to be fine, but the database was somehow corrupted = uh oh. The slow way to fix that is to discover the problematic data cells and/or relational links (which no one has time for in this modern era of gogogogogo), or the fast way to fix that is to restore the database to the last known good save (kind of like an XP restore by reversion). Saves/backups of the site are done every few days, so on the very odd occasion we sometimes (very infrequent I might add) lose a few days worth of posts. I can see that you do put a lot of time and thought into your posts, which is a welcome effort. I can sympathize with your frustrations when that effort seemingly disappears. I am equally frustrated when my posts are lost, but such is the game. This site is nothing more than a SQL database with PHP front-end code to access cells. There are more thoroughly developed systems out there, but they cost real money, and we are cheap 510 guys who would rather spend that dosh on bits for cars, right?

benz-tech
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by benz-tech » 09 Aug 2010 20:48

cjr198car wrote: Im running an R160 LSD with 3.7 gears


Most under-rated differential ever. I keep worrying that my measly 200whp is going to blow it up someday and it still plugs along. Granted, you can only put so much down through 205mm wide tires, sticky or not.

jonesmechanical
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Location: Lehi, Utah

Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by jonesmechanical » 09 Aug 2010 21:32

510rob wrote:This is rad to see - good people brought this thread around to the good side (from the dark side!) and the VG discussions are rolling again. I was tempted to 'moderate' but the auto-mod intelligence of our membership stepped in. Does that make me a bad mod? (ummm, don't answer that!)

Jones..., For the record, no one deleted your posts. There was some hosting computer/server malfunction that downed this website for several days; that was fixed, and the site appeared to be fine, but the database was somehow corrupted = uh oh. The slow way to fix that is to discover the problematic data cells and/or relational links (which no one has time for in this modern era of gogogogogo), or the fast way to fix that is to restore the database to the last known good save (kind of like an XP restore by reversion). Saves/backups of the site are done every few days, so on the very odd occasion we sometimes (very infrequent I might add) lose a few days worth of posts. I can see that you do put a lot of time and thought into your posts, which is a welcome effort. I can sympathize with your frustrations when that effort seemingly disappears. I am equally frustrated when my posts are lost, but such is the game. This site is nothing more than a SQL database with PHP front-end code to access cells. There are more thoroughly developed systems out there, but they cost real money, and we are cheap 510 guys who would rather spend that dosh on bits for cars, right?
Thanks, I appreciate the freedom to let the forum moderate itself. I think we all got to get to know eachother a bit better because of it. You have me lost in all the web jargan, but I totally understand what happened. I was thinking that for some reason they got deleted. So, I'll go ahead and post that website of the m coupe: http://www.turbomcoupe.com. Its going to be another fun project getting it tuned. Gotta love Short Small cars with semi trailing arm suspensions. They have a soul. M coupes are the only BMW's I've owned. Other makes I have owned of only one model: Only Audi I've owned is an A8 (2), the only Toyota I've owned is a Land Cruiser (6), the only Mazda I've owned is a Rx7(2), and the only Nissan/Datsun I've owned is a 510(I can't remember how many, maybe 6), and yes, I did have a wagon at one point also:).

I'll be headed up to salt lake tomorrow. Maybe I'll actually contribute pics to this thread.

cjr198car
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by cjr198car » 10 Aug 2010 15:03

Ive been really happy with the R160. Ive got plans for a different rear end in the future.

Magic Carpet 510
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by Magic Carpet 510 » 22 Aug 2010 15:51

Any updates lately? I had to do some traveling so I have been away for a week or so.

Looking forward to reading them!

Ron Clifton
Ron Clifton
Winston Salem,NC
71 510 VG30, next step...turbo!
Making a Sasquatch sized carbon footprint and loving it!

jonesmechanical
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by jonesmechanical » 24 Aug 2010 16:56

Ok guys, I have been a bit distracted by a few personal things, and some other projects. Here is the update:

Stock VG33 from Pathfinder block is in great shape. Machining required for the Infiniti Pistons is .060 Over. Clark took out the all of the oil galley plugs, cleaned up a lot of the flash casting areas that were an easy kill. Also took out the oil plugs out the crank. Crank checked out, and is all polished up and ready for balancing. Heads needed reconditioning. It did some great port work on the heads. The valve job look jewelery quality.

We had a few interesting conversations. I brought over my new vG30ET oil pump. Much of the discussion about this oil pump I have found states that it does run a high pressure. Most think that this is from just a different spring. He took the pump apart, polished the gears and looked at the differences. The external castings look to be identical. Internally they are not. the pump is self is actually wider. Stock pump internal (off a 200sx VG30e) measured about 1.000, new VG30et pump internals measured about 1.150 thick. this can be also measured on the inside of the shaft drive on the pump.

We are going to build the short block and check the clearances from the valves to the pistons. We think that the piston will clear the timing of the valves 100% without any machining at all. Most all of the builds I have read about that are vg34e's start out as vg33 (I guess thats a given). All of those motors are non interference. I think that everyone was just looking to keep them non interference.

We will find out for sure. But you can almost deduce that when you closely compare the vg30e, vg33e, and vh45de pistons to eachother.

Not having to cut valve reliefs saves money, saves time, and nets higher compression. We may be wrong, but we will soon figure this out.

Here are some pics from today:

The old VG30e oil pump:
Image

The new VG30et oil pump:
Image

Reconditioned Heads/port work (stock VG33e heads):
Image

Image

Image

Image

Block Machining Overbore .060 to accomodate vh45de pistons (VG33e pathfinder block).
Image

Image

Polishing of the Crank (my original VG30e crank):
Image

Image

VG30de rods are in fact a perfect fit for the VG30e crank, and the VH45de piston wrist pins.

Other than that, While I had my camera out, I made my regular visit to one of my good Mechanic Friends. I took lots of pics of this car, but out of respect of the owner, I will only post this pic, as this car will be involved in a documentary (I think) and for sure a Road and Track Magazine spread. Owner is Richard Losee, who I casually know. It was the first Enzo tested, and was featured many times in Road and Track, along with Articles written by Losee him self. Richard and the car were involved in a crazy accident as part of a charity event. Now restored with a few battle scars (no small feat with a composite shattered enzo), no reincarnated into a street/salt flat car.

Image

510rob
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Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by 510rob » 24 Aug 2010 18:36

The wooden jack spacers (blocks) under the tires of the bazillion dollar car are a nice touch in the picture. I like that.

Your motor is looking good. I like that too!

Do you and the engine fellow have any idea of where the compression ratio might end up?

jonesmechanical
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Location: Lehi, Utah

Re: Has anyone here actually built a VG34?

Post by jonesmechanical » 25 Aug 2010 22:57

Engineered wooden blocks to lift low ferraris onto lifts. Thats how it works, need them even with the low profile lifts.

Compression Ratio will be calculated once we assemble the short block and take some measurements and find out if we need to do any work on the pistons. Hopefully not, probobly not, and I would guess between 9.5 to 10:1, based on everything that clark has said up to this point, and what people have published online about the vg34 builds.

Also very interesting: JWT cam springs are 68# at 1" compression (I think stock vg30e springs are in the mid 50# range). Stock VG33 springs are 70#'s at the same height. Also, shims are thinner on the JWT springs, We are going to stay stock VG33 springs and shims (they are thicker) for a bit more pressure on the cam.

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